Bookmaker Margins - Fixed Place Betting

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2 days 21 hours ago - 2 days 21 hours ago #787536 by L J
So I normally shop around for value when backing horses at fixed odds especially when backing eachway(win & place). If a horse doesn't win, you would like to cover your bet with the place. What I find surprising is how different bookmakers have such different margins with place betting that offer the same number of places. I always thought that most (if not all) bookmakers used a specific formula based on the how open the betting was (when the favourite is odds on, the places of all runners is normally highly reduced and also takes into account the number of runners). When the favourite is normally weak such as 2/1 or larger, the places odds of all runners are normally increased in value.

I seem to have found a trend though where some bookmakers are offering crap odds, to be quite frank, on all races at different meetings regardless of whether the favourite is 1/3 or 2/1 or the race has 8 or 13 runners.

I did my own self study where the results can be seen below for Albion Race:8 from this morning which had 10 runners and offers 3 places across all different betting companies and extracts were taken about 2 minutes before the race. I will not name the betting companies for obvious reasons but have attached the screenshots, you be the judge on what seems fair and what does not.

Example 1 : This betting company makes it almost impossible for you to back a horse eachway. The favourite was priced up at 13/10 but shows up at 0.09/1 for a place. The longest priced horse was 66/1 and showed 4.62/1 for a place. This is way under 10% of the horses win odds. How can you justify these margins. They are making it impossible for you to bet with them if you want to take a place bet. It is simply much better to take a tote place in this instant but this company does not offer the open bet. How will this company attract new clientele when they are being so unjust? I have taken notice that this company uses the same margin on all race regarding of a strong or weak favourite. They always offer you way under 10% of the wins odds for a place.

Example 2: This betting company is only slightly better than the first example. The favourite was priced up at 14/10 but shows up at 0.14/1 for a place. The longest priced horse was 66/1 and showed 6.60/1 for a place. This company always offers 10% of the horses win odds for a place. Again, How can you justify these margins? I have taken notice that this company uses the same margin on all races regardless of a strong or weak favourite or number of runners.

Examples 1 & 2, I wonder if these companies take note of their unfair prices compared to most other betting companies or are they just too lazy to adjust their formulas based on the odds of the favourite and number of runners?

Example 3: Now we see, what is in my opinion, the correct place odds being displayed. The favourite was priced up at 13/10 and shows up at 0.23/1 for a place. The longest priced horse was 66/1 and showed 11.88/1 for a place. Note that the place odds of the 66/1 shot is almost double that displayed in example 2 and almost triple that of example 1.

Example 4: Another example of fair margins, the favourite was priced up at 18/10 and shows up at 0.33/1 for a place. The longest priced horse was 66/1 and showed 11.88/1 for a place. Pity the longest priced runner was not captured in my screenshot.

Examples 3 & 4, both companies have identical margins for the place bet and I have noticed that they adjust their odds fairly based on the based on the odds of the favourite and number of runners. These companies are treating punters fairly and are offering them value for their money.

I would like to know if anyone else has noticed similar instances or had any negative experiences regarding fixed place odds offered by betting companies ?
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Last edit: 2 days 21 hours ago by L J.

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2 days 20 hours ago #787543 by ElvisisKing
Dave correct me if i'm wrong here....... years ago didn't bookmakers offer + / - 25% of odds for a place

so 4/1 win.... would be 1 / 1 place ... was this not the case when there were REAL BOOK MAKERS around 20 years ago ??

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2 days 20 hours ago #787546 by Dave Scott
You 100% Elvis, there were a few nip and tucks with money on favs but that was the general rule. Size of fields were also a consideration, 14 runners.

Now they are shocking and probably the worst were Betting World.

I have not checked for a while but Sporting Bet are the best and offer 1/4 the odds and 1/5 th odds but the negative is you can’t have a fixed odds place only, you have to take the ew.

This is just off the top of my head, without checking, have obviously lost a bit enthusiasm during lock down.

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2 days 19 hours ago #787548 by L J
I also find it quite sad that one of the betting companies which is quite obviously being unfair is constantly being promoted on Tellytrack. How do they expect to attract new clientele to horse racing? It makes no sense to me. If you want to widely promote your business, be skilled enough to offer fair odds to punters.
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2 days 19 hours ago #787551 by Bob Brogan
Stop betting if there’s no value

The issue with these shite races is there’s no money to make proper books

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2 days 19 hours ago - 2 days 19 hours ago #787553 by L J
I disagree with you Bob. This has been going on for a while now, long before the lockdown. Also, Australian harness racing (which was used as just one example of many I have noticed) has always been part of our betting bouquet for donkeys years now. I find it highly unlikely that some bookies are now offering lousy odds as opposed to generous odds because of their "books".
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2 days 19 hours ago #787554 by Dave Scott
That's also a factor Bob.

In the good old days the tracks and rooms were packed with punters and you could hold a proper book.

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