The Shocking BBR Story...
- rob faux
-
- New Member
-
- Thanks: 0
Re: Re: The Shocking BBR Story...
14 years 11 months ago
AL,I hear you,but is this not about authority,rather than ownership?
I note that you are an Insurance broker and I think(have been out the business for a few years and lost touch with latest legislation)) you are the agent of the insured in terms of your letter of appointment,but an agent of the insurer in respect of the collection of premiums
If that is still the case,and I pay my premium,to you as agent,am I not deemed to have payed my insurer?
I note that you are an Insurance broker and I think(have been out the business for a few years and lost touch with latest legislation)) you are the agent of the insured in terms of your letter of appointment,but an agent of the insurer in respect of the collection of premiums
If that is still the case,and I pay my premium,to you as agent,am I not deemed to have payed my insurer?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Alcaponee
-
- Platinum Member
-
- Posts: 3012
- Thanks: 12
Re: Re: The Shocking BBR Story...
14 years 11 months ago
I probably misread your original post. You are correct in that premium is deemed as paid by the insurer as soon as it reaches the "brokers" account in most instances these days, it's an account held at a collection agency.
As a side point there is quite a bit of debate regarding who the broker acts for (are you an agent of the client or insurer). This will impact on fees that a broker will be able to charge in future or at very least there will be a cap on broker fees. Apparently insurers and regulators are discussing the cost of administration. One insurer is claiming 3%. I am not so sure of that.
The problem is that we cant really compare local transactions with transactions involving import taxes (IMO). I do believe that the rules are not the same. I base my comments on assumption rather than fact. The SARS site on import has the following info. www.sars.co.za/home.asp?pid=24225 . The question is who is the "importer" that they refer to. I am of the opinion that the importer is the owner of the imported goods not the shipper. SARS surely goes for the importer (owner) of goods if they do not receive their dues. SARS payment arrangements between importer and shipper again IMO are agreement between parties and rules regarding who is responsible for payment rests with the importer in SARS eyes.
As a side point there is quite a bit of debate regarding who the broker acts for (are you an agent of the client or insurer). This will impact on fees that a broker will be able to charge in future or at very least there will be a cap on broker fees. Apparently insurers and regulators are discussing the cost of administration. One insurer is claiming 3%. I am not so sure of that.
The problem is that we cant really compare local transactions with transactions involving import taxes (IMO). I do believe that the rules are not the same. I base my comments on assumption rather than fact. The SARS site on import has the following info. www.sars.co.za/home.asp?pid=24225 . The question is who is the "importer" that they refer to. I am of the opinion that the importer is the owner of the imported goods not the shipper. SARS surely goes for the importer (owner) of goods if they do not receive their dues. SARS payment arrangements between importer and shipper again IMO are agreement between parties and rules regarding who is responsible for payment rests with the importer in SARS eyes.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Rigzo
-
Topic Author
- New Member
-
- Thanks: 0
Re: Re: The Shocking BBR Story...
14 years 11 months ago
BELEAGUERED Brian Roux of BBR Bloodstock Shipping, in response to Alec Hogg’s article “How Brian Roux stole my twelve grand”, claims that a host of non-paying racehorse buyers and what he terms the “criminally uncompetitive actions” of Racing South Africa led to the recent almighty crash of his 30-year-old shipping empire. Roux says he has been reduced overnight to a “street beggar” and feels deep regret.
He writes:
I am disappointed that (Racingweb) never gave me the courtesy of a call, email or sms before publishing your article. As you know in life there are always two sides to a story and sometimes a third side. I would certainly have expected more from you Alec, who consider yourself an esteemed journalist. I am sure my response will remain hidden and unreported!
Unfortunately I am not gifted with the pen as you are, but I do know how to ship! As you by now know I shipped 104 horses between January and June 2010 into South Africa, shipments which all fell foul of SARS. Had I not come forward to SARS at the end of July 2010, this fact would have remained unknown and undetected!
Probably my one major fault (and it is not guzzling wine as I hate the juice! - food and driving fast on a race track are my stress busters) was the same as any alcoholic in not recognizing that I had a problem, a serious cash flow problem and a lack of suitable accounting or financial skills. My main concern was to continue delivering horses into South Africa on time and at the right price.
At the end of December 2009 I was owed in excess of R8 million by the same “wonderful” people we all deal with in the horse industry. Some have issued death threats. I stupidly (in retrospect - hindsight being an exact science) continued to ship.
After the first charter of horses arrived in Cape Town undetected in January 2010 I always intended to sort the VAT payment out to SARS as soon as I was paid. However no past due payments came in and my situation continued to go from bad to worse. This went on until the end of June with no significant improvement in my cash flow or payments made. As a result I was unable to pay the SARS VAT bill.
Rationally, this is a very poor excuse to continue my “smuggling” of horses into Cape Town, but my blind pride in always delivering horses on time for the past 31 years came into play. Today, I regret shipping horses for non-paying owners.
To add insult to injury, some of the charters operated at a severe loss with too few horses thanks to the criminally uncompetitive actions of Racing South Africa. In this respect Kevin Connolly of Connolly and Turner could fill you in, in full, and supply transcripts of the our intention to take Racing SA to the Competitions Board.
The VAT amount involved in the shipments completed January thru June 2010 payable to SARS was in fact just over R10 million plus penalties and not R40 million as stated. It only applied to the period January thru June 2010!
I approached individuals in South Africa to assist and clearly laid out my SARS/Customs predicament and that I had “owned up” to SARS. (Bernard Kantor & Larry Nestadt in this instance excluded - more details later).
No help was forthcoming. Markus Jooste, for whom I have great respect and who himself cannot deny my good performance for always delivering his personal and Klawervlei’s imports and exports, was approached, but he never even returned my call. His staff contacted me for more SARS details, but instead of any form of assistance or acknowledgement of my problem, they went the legal route.
I have not cut any deal/s with SARS/SA authorities and I await my fate with fear. I did, on a very low day, threaten to expose all the holier than thou’s in this industry, but I have not stashed or spent R40 million! If I had,I would certainly have,
a) skipped the country for good or
b) Paid SARS to avoid this ungodly mess!!
However, SARS during my process of hand over, or coming clean, informed me they would be inspecting all past shipments and if any monkeys were shaken out of the tree, so it would be…
I admit to loving sports cars but these were always on a lease. All my worldly goods, cars, mortgaged home etc., have been repossessed by the banks, credit cards were frozen and I am now like a street corner beggar, maybe slightly better dressed.
I have unfortunately dragged my family down into this mess. They had absolutely no knowledge of my SARS issues and are now regretably living my self-made nightmare with me.
I request that you contact the liquidators of BBR Bloodstock Shipping for the list of horse debtors whom to date still owe BBR millions. You will find this an eye-opener!
As for Bernard Kantor and Larry Nestadt: I have indeed dealt wonderfully for the past 30 years with Messrs Kantor and Nestadt for whom I have the utmost respect and I have always treated them as my mentors (along with the late Graham Beck and Laurie Jaffee)
I have always felt part of their numerous international racing/stallion successes and they have over many years supported me and in the past generously helped me out of cash flow holes.
Earlier this year I approached Bernard and Larry for assistance for my critical cash flow situation and agreed to form a partnership to improve the quarantines in South Africa for Imports and Exports, enter into workable agreements with Racing SA and to team up with their administration to sort out my dismal admin and book keeping.
This was in order to generally improve the horse shipping industry and revenue flows which we acknowledged as disastrous to say the least. The sum involved was R10 million which was urgently needed to release a DC8 Charter aircraft stuck in Europe about to begin a horse delivery worldwide! (Route EU/CPT ARG/CPT & AUS to CPT).
At the time I omitted to inform Bernard and Larry of my SARS Vat problem, which is something I now deeply regret. They were greatly concerned about the depth of this “black hole” and decided to cut me loose.
One makes mistakes in life and this has certainly turned out to be my “life ending” mistake which I will forever re-play in my mind. I also deeply regret the “double VAT” which had to be paid by clients who previously respected and supported me.
Brian Roux
2 September, 2010
He writes:
I am disappointed that (Racingweb) never gave me the courtesy of a call, email or sms before publishing your article. As you know in life there are always two sides to a story and sometimes a third side. I would certainly have expected more from you Alec, who consider yourself an esteemed journalist. I am sure my response will remain hidden and unreported!
Unfortunately I am not gifted with the pen as you are, but I do know how to ship! As you by now know I shipped 104 horses between January and June 2010 into South Africa, shipments which all fell foul of SARS. Had I not come forward to SARS at the end of July 2010, this fact would have remained unknown and undetected!
Probably my one major fault (and it is not guzzling wine as I hate the juice! - food and driving fast on a race track are my stress busters) was the same as any alcoholic in not recognizing that I had a problem, a serious cash flow problem and a lack of suitable accounting or financial skills. My main concern was to continue delivering horses into South Africa on time and at the right price.
At the end of December 2009 I was owed in excess of R8 million by the same “wonderful” people we all deal with in the horse industry. Some have issued death threats. I stupidly (in retrospect - hindsight being an exact science) continued to ship.
After the first charter of horses arrived in Cape Town undetected in January 2010 I always intended to sort the VAT payment out to SARS as soon as I was paid. However no past due payments came in and my situation continued to go from bad to worse. This went on until the end of June with no significant improvement in my cash flow or payments made. As a result I was unable to pay the SARS VAT bill.
Rationally, this is a very poor excuse to continue my “smuggling” of horses into Cape Town, but my blind pride in always delivering horses on time for the past 31 years came into play. Today, I regret shipping horses for non-paying owners.
To add insult to injury, some of the charters operated at a severe loss with too few horses thanks to the criminally uncompetitive actions of Racing South Africa. In this respect Kevin Connolly of Connolly and Turner could fill you in, in full, and supply transcripts of the our intention to take Racing SA to the Competitions Board.
The VAT amount involved in the shipments completed January thru June 2010 payable to SARS was in fact just over R10 million plus penalties and not R40 million as stated. It only applied to the period January thru June 2010!
I approached individuals in South Africa to assist and clearly laid out my SARS/Customs predicament and that I had “owned up” to SARS. (Bernard Kantor & Larry Nestadt in this instance excluded - more details later).
No help was forthcoming. Markus Jooste, for whom I have great respect and who himself cannot deny my good performance for always delivering his personal and Klawervlei’s imports and exports, was approached, but he never even returned my call. His staff contacted me for more SARS details, but instead of any form of assistance or acknowledgement of my problem, they went the legal route.
I have not cut any deal/s with SARS/SA authorities and I await my fate with fear. I did, on a very low day, threaten to expose all the holier than thou’s in this industry, but I have not stashed or spent R40 million! If I had,I would certainly have,
a) skipped the country for good or
b) Paid SARS to avoid this ungodly mess!!
However, SARS during my process of hand over, or coming clean, informed me they would be inspecting all past shipments and if any monkeys were shaken out of the tree, so it would be…
I admit to loving sports cars but these were always on a lease. All my worldly goods, cars, mortgaged home etc., have been repossessed by the banks, credit cards were frozen and I am now like a street corner beggar, maybe slightly better dressed.
I have unfortunately dragged my family down into this mess. They had absolutely no knowledge of my SARS issues and are now regretably living my self-made nightmare with me.
I request that you contact the liquidators of BBR Bloodstock Shipping for the list of horse debtors whom to date still owe BBR millions. You will find this an eye-opener!
As for Bernard Kantor and Larry Nestadt: I have indeed dealt wonderfully for the past 30 years with Messrs Kantor and Nestadt for whom I have the utmost respect and I have always treated them as my mentors (along with the late Graham Beck and Laurie Jaffee)
I have always felt part of their numerous international racing/stallion successes and they have over many years supported me and in the past generously helped me out of cash flow holes.
Earlier this year I approached Bernard and Larry for assistance for my critical cash flow situation and agreed to form a partnership to improve the quarantines in South Africa for Imports and Exports, enter into workable agreements with Racing SA and to team up with their administration to sort out my dismal admin and book keeping.
This was in order to generally improve the horse shipping industry and revenue flows which we acknowledged as disastrous to say the least. The sum involved was R10 million which was urgently needed to release a DC8 Charter aircraft stuck in Europe about to begin a horse delivery worldwide! (Route EU/CPT ARG/CPT & AUS to CPT).
At the time I omitted to inform Bernard and Larry of my SARS Vat problem, which is something I now deeply regret. They were greatly concerned about the depth of this “black hole” and decided to cut me loose.
One makes mistakes in life and this has certainly turned out to be my “life ending” mistake which I will forever re-play in my mind. I also deeply regret the “double VAT” which had to be paid by clients who previously respected and supported me.
Brian Roux
2 September, 2010
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- rob faux
-
- New Member
-
- Thanks: 0
Re: Re: The Shocking BBR Story...
14 years 11 months ago
Yeah Al,I guess thats the beauty of being a Govt. dept.They seldom lose,as they ensure that their rules allow them to throw the net wide.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Chris van Buuren
-
- Platinum Member
-
- Posts: 9804
- Thanks: 202
Re: Re: The Shocking BBR Story...
14 years 11 months ago
I guess I can only go from what I read, but to me it seems from these articles as well as others I have read in the past that the biggest problem today in SA racing is the non payment of debts....whatever those debts may be. Training fees, purchase prices of horses, vet bills (albeit astronomically unfair what they charge), import charges ect.ect.
Where have the days gone that if you don't pay, you don't get. If you purchase a horse at the NYS you either bring a big plastic bag full of money or you sort out credit terms with banking officials right there and then....BEFORE you take delivery of said goods.......I guess I'm smoking my socks right?
Didn't old man Ferraris drop off some poor guys horses on his front lawn because he didn't pay him?!?!?!??!
It doesn't seem to me too difficult to get these things right, if handled correctly, but then is also seems to me that there is too much skullduggery behind the scenes. This in my mind is due to the "old regime" still lurking around and trying to rule the roost.
As with casinos it is time for the older folk to step aside and let the younger guns come in and give it a go. We need young leaders now, plain and simple.......
Hope there are some blokes or gals out there who are willing to step in and make a change?!?!?!?!?
Where have the days gone that if you don't pay, you don't get. If you purchase a horse at the NYS you either bring a big plastic bag full of money or you sort out credit terms with banking officials right there and then....BEFORE you take delivery of said goods.......I guess I'm smoking my socks right?
Didn't old man Ferraris drop off some poor guys horses on his front lawn because he didn't pay him?!?!?!??!
It doesn't seem to me too difficult to get these things right, if handled correctly, but then is also seems to me that there is too much skullduggery behind the scenes. This in my mind is due to the "old regime" still lurking around and trying to rule the roost.
As with casinos it is time for the older folk to step aside and let the younger guns come in and give it a go. We need young leaders now, plain and simple.......
Hope there are some blokes or gals out there who are willing to step in and make a change?!?!?!?!?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Barry Irwin
-
- New Member
-
- Thanks: 0
Re: Re: The Shocking BBR Story...
14 years 11 months ago
The real story for me is that SARS would move against those persons that had paid their VAT to Roux.
This would never happen is the United States.
This aspect of this mess is a real head shaker.
I don't condone what Brian has done, but I do empathize with one facet of his downfall, which is that Peter Gibson accelerated his demise. I like Peter very much and think generally he does a fine job, but when quasi-governmental agencies compete with private enterprise, it invariably leads to conflicts of interest and trouble. This is quite unfortunate, because Brian Roux performed a valuable service for many, many years. I feel sorry for him.
This would never happen is the United States.
This aspect of this mess is a real head shaker.
I don't condone what Brian has done, but I do empathize with one facet of his downfall, which is that Peter Gibson accelerated his demise. I like Peter very much and think generally he does a fine job, but when quasi-governmental agencies compete with private enterprise, it invariably leads to conflicts of interest and trouble. This is quite unfortunate, because Brian Roux performed a valuable service for many, many years. I feel sorry for him.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Dave Scott
-
- Administrator
-
- Posts: 44052
- Thanks: 3412
Re: Re: The Shocking BBR Story...
14 years 11 months ago
This is sad stuff, have never met the man but feel bad for him and his family

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Jack Dash
-
- New Member
-
- Thanks: 0
Re: Re: The Shocking BBR Story...
14 years 11 months ago
Alcaponee Wrote:
> to. I am of the opinion that the importer is the
> owner of the imported goods not the shipper. SARS
> surely goes for the importer (owner) of goods if
> they do not receive their dues. SARS payment
> arrangements between importer and shipper again
> IMO are agreement between parties and rules
> regarding who is responsible for payment rests
> with the importer in SARS eyes.
Are you saying the (owner) should pay the shipper minus tax, and the tax direct to government if they wanted to be sure that it gets there?
Is the tax registered shipper not the collector on behalf of the government, because you could not give the tax to them if they were not registered?
> to. I am of the opinion that the importer is the
> owner of the imported goods not the shipper. SARS
> surely goes for the importer (owner) of goods if
> they do not receive their dues. SARS payment
> arrangements between importer and shipper again
> IMO are agreement between parties and rules
> regarding who is responsible for payment rests
> with the importer in SARS eyes.
Are you saying the (owner) should pay the shipper minus tax, and the tax direct to government if they wanted to be sure that it gets there?
Is the tax registered shipper not the collector on behalf of the government, because you could not give the tax to them if they were not registered?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- New Turf
-
- New Member
-
- Thanks: 0
Re: Re: The Shocking BBR Story...
14 years 11 months ago
Sorry to hear about Brian, he has been a loyal client to us for many years and his payments for any transport were always met. With regards to the industry we, New Turf Carriers, a relatively small, family business, are carrying a book of R1 900 000. 00. Some of that is non recoverable from people who either sell the horses, change ownership or just plain tell you to go to hell..... The powers that be refuse to believe that we, the racing industry, are in trouble.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Punter
-
- New Member
-
- Thanks: 0
Re: Re: The Shocking BBR Story...
14 years 11 months ago
Why everyone feeling sorry for Brian ???? From what I read he ripped people of and now turned state witness .
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- easy
-
- Platinum Member
-
- Posts: 3855
- Thanks: 261
Re: Re: The Shocking BBR Story...
14 years 11 months ago
"The powers that be refuse to believe that we, the racing industry, are in trouble. "
possibly the truest words written on a forum in a long time.
possibly the truest words written on a forum in a long time.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- zsuzsanna04
-
- New Member
-
- Thanks: 0
Re: Re: The Shocking BBR Story...
14 years 11 months ago
I think there are a large number of 'old school' guys who still assume that this is a gentleman's game and work on a sort of honour system.
For example, my trainer charges fees in arrears and as far as I know this is pretty much accepted practice? Which is fine in principle as I always settle on time, but by the time I pay him, he's already in the red to the value of my fees, plus all the rest of the yard. Working on that system it is easy to see how people can get into trouble very very easily as just a single non-payer impacts heavily on cash flow.
My riding horse liveries are all required (and paid !) in advance.
For example, my trainer charges fees in arrears and as far as I know this is pretty much accepted practice? Which is fine in principle as I always settle on time, but by the time I pay him, he's already in the red to the value of my fees, plus all the rest of the yard. Working on that system it is easy to see how people can get into trouble very very easily as just a single non-payer impacts heavily on cash flow.
My riding horse liveries are all required (and paid !) in advance.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Time to create page: 0.113 seconds