making a living from betting(tu)
- Justanotherpunter
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Re: Re: making a living from betting(tu)
14 years 3 months ago
Mr Irwin,
With due respect,which is certainly due to you,you most certainly do not know it all then.I personally could have dinner with a few who do turn a profit from racing,and as for the big syndicates,they makes big millions in $ terms.
With due respect,which is certainly due to you,you most certainly do not know it all then.I personally could have dinner with a few who do turn a profit from racing,and as for the big syndicates,they makes big millions in $ terms.
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- easy
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Re: Re: making a living from betting(tu)
14 years 3 months ago
I think Barry is assuming that the succesful punters make money from racing in its "purest" sense but really they make money on MATH. Succesful punters dont need to have a winning bet to be succesful, simply by "saving" on a losing bet they have the ability to sustain a losing run for longer whilst at the same time maintaining the same level of bet and therefore when they do strike they recoup and show a profit.
Also every single succesful punter i have met (4 in total) that make a living from it often have long losing spells. Patrick Veitch is one of them, he can sometimes go months showijg a loss BUT one thing they all do is keep a record of their bets and "tally up" at the end of the quarter/year. Being a succesful punter is like running a business, sometimes you ahead and sometimes you behind BUT becuase you in it for the long haul what counts is the year end financials.
Again this boils down to value, its how some of these people construct their bets that make them succesful. FOR SURE you need software. The software i use i had developed for myself and my partner at a cost of £7k. It is by no means a license to print money although we did call it "the candy machine". We dont use it not because it failed but because it showed a £4k profit after 6 months. My partner and I thoguh also own a fibre optice company that in the last 2 years has gone from 3 staff to 40 staff and our turnover from ££400k to £2million. This means that "the candy machine" is on the shelf , it is just not worth it at this stage. Even with it being software it still needs you to spend 1 to 2 hours a day on it. We are better off spending that time running our company for those 2 hours.
Can you make racing pay, yes for sure.
It is fun, no not at all
Is it hard work , very very hard.
Is it about the horse/jockey/trainer, NOT in the slightest. (this last sentence ONLY applies to anyone with a long term view in punting, by then its ALL about numbers)
Also every single succesful punter i have met (4 in total) that make a living from it often have long losing spells. Patrick Veitch is one of them, he can sometimes go months showijg a loss BUT one thing they all do is keep a record of their bets and "tally up" at the end of the quarter/year. Being a succesful punter is like running a business, sometimes you ahead and sometimes you behind BUT becuase you in it for the long haul what counts is the year end financials.
Again this boils down to value, its how some of these people construct their bets that make them succesful. FOR SURE you need software. The software i use i had developed for myself and my partner at a cost of £7k. It is by no means a license to print money although we did call it "the candy machine". We dont use it not because it failed but because it showed a £4k profit after 6 months. My partner and I thoguh also own a fibre optice company that in the last 2 years has gone from 3 staff to 40 staff and our turnover from ££400k to £2million. This means that "the candy machine" is on the shelf , it is just not worth it at this stage. Even with it being software it still needs you to spend 1 to 2 hours a day on it. We are better off spending that time running our company for those 2 hours.
Can you make racing pay, yes for sure.
It is fun, no not at all
Is it hard work , very very hard.
Is it about the horse/jockey/trainer, NOT in the slightest. (this last sentence ONLY applies to anyone with a long term view in punting, by then its ALL about numbers)
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- Barry Irwin
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Re: Re: making a living from betting(tu)
14 years 3 months ago
The only guy I have ever met or even heard about that was able to make money betting horses for a sustained period of time in North America is Gary Hallman. His method was very simple: he waited for days with huge Pick 6 carryovers, when the pools in Southern California swelled to millions of dollars. Gary had scouts scattered all over the racetrack. After the third or fourth race of the Pick 6, his scouts would try to find people with "live" tickets. These punters would be asked to let the scouts see their selections for the last couple of races. If Gary liked the horses that were still left in the mix, he would try to buy their tickets.
Punting on horse races in America dried up in the 1990s when cheating trainers and owners had such a great influence on the sport that rival owners left the game, creating small fields, which punters refused to bet on.
Southern California racing went from the strongest in the country to an also-ran when those trusted with keeping the game on the level failed to police the game.
Punting on horse races in America dried up in the 1990s when cheating trainers and owners had such a great influence on the sport that rival owners left the game, creating small fields, which punters refused to bet on.
Southern California racing went from the strongest in the country to an also-ran when those trusted with keeping the game on the level failed to police the game.
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Re: Re: making a living from betting(tu)
14 years 3 months ago
Barry
that sounds like an urban myth. Why would this bloke not have his scouts there full time? that makes no sense having them there only when the pools were big. If his modus operadi was to look at live tickets and then make an offer he would/should have done this all the time.
There are many succesful players in the UK. Some are pools players (scoop 6) some are mulitples players and some like Patrick are blokes that dind winners and back them off the boards.
You dont have to look any further than Barney Curley to find a succesful punter, he is in the limelight , there are 100's we dont even know about.
that sounds like an urban myth. Why would this bloke not have his scouts there full time? that makes no sense having them there only when the pools were big. If his modus operadi was to look at live tickets and then make an offer he would/should have done this all the time.
There are many succesful players in the UK. Some are pools players (scoop 6) some are mulitples players and some like Patrick are blokes that dind winners and back them off the boards.
You dont have to look any further than Barney Curley to find a succesful punter, he is in the limelight , there are 100's we dont even know about.
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- Dave Scott
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Re: Re: making a living from betting(tu)
14 years 3 months ago
Good old Barney
Fifteen days on from one of the boldest betting coups of recent seasons, Barney Curley was back on a racecourse yesterday, taking the sun outside the weighing room at Lingfield as he waited to saddle two runners on the card. "One day," he said, when asked about the four-horse gamble two weeks ago. "One day, I'll tell the story."
It should make for quite a tale, of the bets that were landed and, perhaps, the one that got away. It involved three horses from Curley's own stable and another, previously in his ownership, that had moved to join Chris Grant.
Three were winners, including the Grant-trained Jeu De Roseau, which completed the treble at 6-4 having been backed at 25-1 earlier in the day. Had all four gone in, the payout – so the bookies say – could have passed a million pounds.
As it was, many suggested a payout well into six figures, though Curley himself, of course, is not going to be drawn. "It wouldn't have changed my life," he says. And have all the bets been paid out? He pauses, choosing his words. "I am monitoring the situation."
Punter, trainer, owner, iconoclast: Curley has filled all of these roles during his 40-plus years on the turf, often all at once. There are only 12 horses in his stable now, well down from the 30 or more that were once funded almost entirely from betting, and the gambles are less frequent. But he still fascinates the punters, in particular when he makes a rare excursion to the track.
His two runners yesterday were both beaten, Sir Mozart after attracting significant support, Securitisation after drifting in the pre-race betting.
Curley described both as "iffers" beforehand, neither of which would be carrying any of his money, so unless he changed his mind it was his presence alone that persuaded the punters to get behind Sir Mozart.
The buzz of a gamble still has its appeal and Curley still enjoys his racing, though he worries about its future. "What the sport needs is for someone to take control, to be a leader," he says. "Instead, all you have is people who are always looking over their shoulders. Someone has to stand up and say: 'This is what will happen.'
"I'm not worried for my part, I've run my race, but I'm worried for the young people, the jockeys now who want to be trainers in 10 years or 20 years' time. We seem to miss opportunities all the time, like we did with Sea The Stars last season.
"People talk about Racing for Change, but we need to think about the people who are in racing already."
Bookmakers in general, and big bookies in particular, remain a source of immense frustration for Curley. He recalls that after the famous Yellow Sam coup in the mid-70s, said to have netted £300,000, some bookies decided to pay him out "in the big, green Irish pound notes of the time, and they were all screwed up into balls too, just out of badness". It took dozens of bags to shift it all, and he had to be careful about counting it, too, as there were rumours of an armed raid to get it back.
Today, the frustrations are different. The only loser in his four "coup" horses last week was sent off at 1-3, as the bookies tried to stem their losses. "That's why the system is wrong," he says. "You could have had whatever you like on at 7-4 and 6-4 on Betfair."
Curley has spent over a decade working on what may be the last great project of his life, Direct Aid For Africa, which has built a clinic and a school for 1,600 children in Zambia.
He has not visited Zambia since before Christmas – "I got ill the last time I went" – but hopes to be returning there soon. "I feel free when I'm there," he says. "You don't have people on your back the whole time like you do when you're racing."
Fifteen days on from one of the boldest betting coups of recent seasons, Barney Curley was back on a racecourse yesterday, taking the sun outside the weighing room at Lingfield as he waited to saddle two runners on the card. "One day," he said, when asked about the four-horse gamble two weeks ago. "One day, I'll tell the story."
It should make for quite a tale, of the bets that were landed and, perhaps, the one that got away. It involved three horses from Curley's own stable and another, previously in his ownership, that had moved to join Chris Grant.
Three were winners, including the Grant-trained Jeu De Roseau, which completed the treble at 6-4 having been backed at 25-1 earlier in the day. Had all four gone in, the payout – so the bookies say – could have passed a million pounds.
As it was, many suggested a payout well into six figures, though Curley himself, of course, is not going to be drawn. "It wouldn't have changed my life," he says. And have all the bets been paid out? He pauses, choosing his words. "I am monitoring the situation."
Punter, trainer, owner, iconoclast: Curley has filled all of these roles during his 40-plus years on the turf, often all at once. There are only 12 horses in his stable now, well down from the 30 or more that were once funded almost entirely from betting, and the gambles are less frequent. But he still fascinates the punters, in particular when he makes a rare excursion to the track.
His two runners yesterday were both beaten, Sir Mozart after attracting significant support, Securitisation after drifting in the pre-race betting.
Curley described both as "iffers" beforehand, neither of which would be carrying any of his money, so unless he changed his mind it was his presence alone that persuaded the punters to get behind Sir Mozart.
The buzz of a gamble still has its appeal and Curley still enjoys his racing, though he worries about its future. "What the sport needs is for someone to take control, to be a leader," he says. "Instead, all you have is people who are always looking over their shoulders. Someone has to stand up and say: 'This is what will happen.'
"I'm not worried for my part, I've run my race, but I'm worried for the young people, the jockeys now who want to be trainers in 10 years or 20 years' time. We seem to miss opportunities all the time, like we did with Sea The Stars last season.
"People talk about Racing for Change, but we need to think about the people who are in racing already."
Bookmakers in general, and big bookies in particular, remain a source of immense frustration for Curley. He recalls that after the famous Yellow Sam coup in the mid-70s, said to have netted £300,000, some bookies decided to pay him out "in the big, green Irish pound notes of the time, and they were all screwed up into balls too, just out of badness". It took dozens of bags to shift it all, and he had to be careful about counting it, too, as there were rumours of an armed raid to get it back.
Today, the frustrations are different. The only loser in his four "coup" horses last week was sent off at 1-3, as the bookies tried to stem their losses. "That's why the system is wrong," he says. "You could have had whatever you like on at 7-4 and 6-4 on Betfair."
Curley has spent over a decade working on what may be the last great project of his life, Direct Aid For Africa, which has built a clinic and a school for 1,600 children in Zambia.
He has not visited Zambia since before Christmas – "I got ill the last time I went" – but hopes to be returning there soon. "I feel free when I'm there," he says. "You don't have people on your back the whole time like you do when you're racing."
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