Go-Fast Drug

....both steroidal and non steroidal anti-inflamitories invariably cause stomach ulcers which is now as common as bleeding is....gotta wonder why some vets presrcibe these treatments only to land up prescribing treatments for the side effects of anti-inflammitories....
vicious circles....:S

zsuzsanna04 Wrote:

---

> Toothman, of course most of the drugs are legal.
>
> But you are confusing humans (prescient beings)
> with animals (who have no choice, and worse, no
> voice). Humans can see a doctor, explain
> symptoms, be recommended a medication, read the
> label (and side effects) and then make an informed
> choice whether or not to go ahead and take it (or
> even keep taking it, if it makes them feel lousy).
>
>
> An animal does not have this luxury. It only
> knows whether it is comfortable or not. It does
> not have the psychological wherewithal to know
> that someone has administered an anti-inflammatory
> and while it may feel better, it actually is not.
>
> Imagine, if you will, a horse that comes back from
> a race 'a bit scratchy'. It is administered some
> anti-inflams as routine. Which is fine. Assuming
> that the horse has merely overexerted itself and
> is just a bit sore here and there.
>
> Now imagine, if you will, a horse that sustained
> some sort of micro-fracture in that race (or
> perhaps strained a tendon or ligament, or tore a
> muscle to some degree). The vet says he'll give
> it something to make it more comfortable (it's
> humane after all - we're doing it for the good of
> the horse). Presto, the horse feels better and
> the horse is back in work. Except it shouldn't be
> because it actually has an injury. Which has now
> been masked.
>
> Fast forward a bit. The horse is coping as best
> it can, so it loses a bit of form, but is still
> running there or thereabouts. But obviously it's
> a bit scratchy after it's races (and perhaps after
> prep gallops), so it gets it's (perfectly legal)
> anti-inflammatory medication (therapeutically
> administered) to 'help it along'.
>
> So eventually the body will begin to adapt. If
> one bit is not working, the body makes an
> executive decision to 'delegate' some of the load
> to another bit of the body. So the
> muscle/tendon/ligament which is damaged / weaker
> and not functioning properly, needs to be
> compensated for by something else. The body is
> now not moving symmetrically. And as one side
> gets stronger (it has to as it's carrying the
> bigger load - that's basic engineering logic), the
> other side gets weaker. As an example, muscles
> work in equally opposing pairs, so it stands to
> reason that when the agonist isn't working
> properly, the antagonist isn't either (ie one side
> of the body works harder, or less symmetrically
> than the other. Which means that it is unevenly
> stressed.
>
> Given the limits to which we push our horses and
> the stupid g-forces that are put on bone and
> connective tissue, that's not really something you
> want. Because you mess with the symmetry (much
> like messing with your car's wheel alignment)
> means that the other wheels suddenly have to take
> up the slack.
>
> So then it's over to you. But I'd rather my horse
> was sore and could tell me, than we just plastered
> over it and hoped for the best.
>
> The NHA actually issues guidelines with regard to
> the therapeutic drugs so that they won't show up
> in a race day test. Interpret that any way you
> like.
>
> The problem with administering drugs (legal or
> illegal) is that the efficacy depends entirely on
> the administrator. Of COURSE a lot of drugs have
> therapeutic applications. The question is, are
> they applied therapeutically? Or as short-cuts?
> Or for other reasons?
>
> Like Sylvester, I'm not a great believer in human
> beings. I think it is much easier to make a
> blanket 'no drugs' ruling and come down hard on
> anyone who transgresses.
>
> Which is a great pity. I am sure that horses can
> be treated therapeutically and then managed and
> run entirely ethically. I'm just not sure it
> happens all that often. Some of that is a moral
> issue, some of that is an educational one.
>
> I'd personally rather err on the side of caution.


I was racing pigoens a few years back and did it for 10 years. I 100% agree with zsuzsanna04. Many medicine and energy supplements have various affects on animals and even if sometimes they might feel (fixed up) after an ilness or very hard race, they in fact aren't. there are many ways to use them drugs but little accurate ways to inforce it.

I strongly belief that this is exactly the same in the horce racing world today. Some of the drugs that I used for my race pigoens was also used for race horses.

Stick to the basics! a good bred pigoen that is well trained and fit with a little affection wil win races! same goes for horses!

@Muhti, there is more evidence that stress is the main cause of GI ulcers (which would explain the extremely high incidence in young foals). The newly classified Cox2 specific drugs do *not* necessarily cause ulcers, and can therefore be used without destroying the GI tract, or causing kidney problems.

@Deon, while there are a few drugs commonly used between birds and horses, they are in the minority. There are a few "rogues" around the world who use illegally obtained drugs, which are not registered for horses. But let's say your kid comes home from school with an injury form playing soccer. You can't see any obvious broken bones, but he says his ankle is sore. Are you going to say, let's keep the kid quiet and still, and let it heal in time. Let's keep him confined to his bedroom,to allow him to heal correctly. I would say at this stage you should buy some earplugs, because he would be wailing and saying: "Daddy, my leg is very sore". But you will just say, "Just keep still my boy, in a few weeks the pain will be less, and you will be allowed to walk again, once the inflammation has gone"

What you will actually do is: take him to Trauma at the nearest hospital, take x-rays, and the attending will administer a diclofenac injection and strap up the area etc. Other medication will be prescribed and dispensed. What you may find, is that there is no real damage to the structures, but some mild inflammation and bruising. But no real injury. The kid is back on the soccer field 2 weeks later, no problem.

Would you deny your child pain medication? A horse can't speak about pain. It needs to be diagnosed by a vet. A few horseman can also give an educated guess as to the nature of the source of pain, but it really needs proper veterinary diagnosis. The various injury managing medications have become *so* specific. Professional athletes are maintained in the same way: ask Ryan Kankowsky or Butch James what it takes to keep them at their full athletic potential... But with the vast sums of money paid for their services (or for a horse at purchase or for training fees) one simply cannot allow for months of healing time between minor soundness issues.

If this was the case, I can tell you now, there would be an empty card on July Day. This is an endless debate... And kind of like the Kony 2012 story, before you jump on a "Save the horse" bandwagon, make sure you understand and have all the facts

I agree with you Rubyclipper, in many casess precautionary steps must be taken to avoied symptoms and also to enhance the wellness and the recoperating time of the horse. I'm only saying that if special care with dhe drug dosage and preventions of sickness and the healing of a horse is not taken seriously it will have devistating long term affects on it.

The main thing is to keep it as simple and affective as possible with the minumum interference. ( this means keep it on the normal 4 to 6 weekly medication basis) not overdoing it when certain symptoms are picked up by the trainer or vet.

If overdone or lets say over forced the longer term symptoms will occur mor regularly and the shorter term symptoms wil have more resistance to regular treatment. The size of the animal doesn't count in this explanation, it has only to do with the emmune system.

Hope this helps you understanding my opinion

Yes, I now understand your point of view a lot better. I do agree that medications and treatments need to be judiciously. The side effects often outweigh the benefits, especially when any drug is abused... And I am yet to meet an owner who is willing to pay keep for a horse while it is sitting out a withdrawal period for a drug used unnecessarily... This includes anabolic steroids (as per a previous thread on this forum). The drugs are used to treat specific issues mostly, and not given on a regular basis, just for "good measure". What a lot of people here have however said, is that they should not be used at all.

If you have a good horse, I think anyone would realise that masking pain and working through injury would reduce the athletic potential of a horse, and compromise the horse's career. So again, I feel this is self limiting. Even good horses can't win if they are broken! And there is no medication available that could possibly mask catastrophic pain, enough to race/ train a badly injured horse.

Thank you for your further, and polite clarification

Muhtiman Wrote:

---

> Not a new drug but marketed as a feed suppliment,
> has been used in USA legally for several years,
> can be bought online for $500-$800/kg and it does
> not work in a single dose or one syringe to be
> effective. One would have to feed it on a daily
> basis to have an effect building up in a work
> programme.
>
> I'm sure there are not many trainers that can
> afford a R4000-R15000/month bump in training fee's
> for something that can now be detected and not
> that effective.This won't turn an average horse
> into a Gr1 winner but may give your G1 runner an
> edge over other G1 runners.

Well i'm sure there are some owners/trainers out there that might be happy to pay R4000 extra to give their G1 horse the edge over the others when you are competing for R2 Million purse !?

It is supposedly now an injectable form available, but would you pay that for something for which there is no clinical evidence that it even does what it is supposed to do? Would you even allow this drug to be given to your horses when it has never been tested on, and is not registered for equines? Its was developed for possible use in humans, and has only been clinically tested on mice... It is freely available, you can even buy it online in kg's! But use at your own risk... Just don't tell the poor horse...

Flaming Rock Wrote:

---

>
> Well i'm sure there are some owners/trainers out
> there that might be happy to pay R4000 extra to
> give their G1 horse the edge over the others when
> you are competing for R2 Million purse !?

Balls... gotta get the cash up front 1st..... these okes(racing folk)are the worst payers in the land....and Ruby Clipper has a point, this product is a bit of a myth, no proven trials or examples of success stories just seedy gmail addy offering the stuff like it was tik.

zsuzsanna04 Wrote:

---

> Toothman, of course most of the drugs are legal.
>
> But you are confusing humans (prescient beings)
> with animals (who have no choice, and worse, no
> voice). Humans can see a doctor, explain
> symptoms, be recommended a medication, read the
> label (and side effects) and then make an informed
> choice whether or not to go ahead and take it (or
> even keep taking it, if it makes them feel lousy).
>
>
> An animal does not have this luxury. It only
> knows whether it is comfortable or not. It does
> not have the psychological wherewithal to know
> that someone has administered an anti-inflammatory
> and while it may feel better, it actually is not.
>
> Imagine, if you will, a horse that comes back from
> a race 'a bit scratchy'. It is administered some
> anti-inflams as routine. Which is fine. Assuming
> that the horse has merely overexerted itself and
> is just a bit sore here and there.
>
> Now imagine, if you will, a horse that sustained
> some sort of micro-fracture in that race (or
> perhaps strained a tendon or ligament, or tore a
> muscle to some degree). The vet says he'll give
> it something to make it more comfortable (it's
> humane after all - we're doing it for the good of
> the horse). Presto, the horse feels better and
> the horse is back in work. Except it shouldn't be
> because it actually has an injury. Which has now
> been masked.
>
> Fast forward a bit. The horse is coping as best
> it can, so it loses a bit of form, but is still
> running there or thereabouts. But obviously it's
> a bit scratchy after it's races (and perhaps after
> prep gallops), so it gets it's (perfectly legal)
> anti-inflammatory medication (therapeutically
> administered) to 'help it along'.
>
> So eventually the body will begin to adapt. If
> one bit is not working, the body makes an
> executive decision to 'delegate' some of the load
> to another bit of the body. So the
> muscle/tendon/ligament which is damaged / weaker
> and not functioning properly, needs to be
> compensated for by something else. The body is
> now not moving symmetrically. And as one side
> gets stronger (it has to as it's carrying the
> bigger load - that's basic engineering logic), the
> other side gets weaker. As an example, muscles
> work in equally opposing pairs, so it stands to
> reason that when the agonist isn't working
> properly, the antagonist isn't either (ie one side
> of the body works harder, or less symmetrically
> than the other. Which means that it is unevenly
> stressed.
>
> Given the limits to which we push our horses and
> the stupid g-forces that are put on bone and
> connective tissue, that's not really something you
> want. Because you mess with the symmetry (much
> like messing with your car's wheel alignment)
> means that the other wheels suddenly have to take
> up the slack.
>
> So then it's over to you. But I'd rather my horse
> was sore and could tell me, than we just plastered
> over it and hoped for the best.
>
> The NHA actually issues guidelines with regard to
> the therapeutic drugs so that they won't show up
> in a race day test. Interpret that any way you
> like.
>
> The problem with administering drugs (legal or
> illegal) is that the efficacy depends entirely on
> the administrator. Of COURSE a lot of drugs have
> therapeutic applications. The question is, are
> they applied therapeutically? Or as short-cuts?
> Or for other reasons?
>
> Like Sylvester, I'm not a great believer in human
> beings. I think it is much easier to make a
> blanket 'no drugs' ruling and come down hard on
> anyone who transgresses.
>
> Which is a great pity. I am sure that horses can
> be treated therapeutically and then managed and
> run entirely ethically. I'm just not sure it
> happens all that often. Some of that is a moral
> issue, some of that is an educational one.
>
> I'd personally rather err on the side of caution.


@ zsuzsanna04, I do agree with a lot of your comments. At the end of the day though , a trainer ( or vet ) who does not pick up a strained tendon, ligament or muscle should start thinking about another profession ?

Muhtiman Wrote:


> this product is a bit of a myth, no proven trials or examples
> of success stories just seedy gmail addy ...

Examples of success stories are no better than advertisers' claims. Many of the ecstatic users are paid for their testimonies. They write what they are told, for money.

Some don't even exist. Unless the advertiser gives full names and contact details ... which they never do ... how can you ever check up?

....there are more proven nutricuetical additves that combined with good feed and exercise regimins have execellent results and they only cost about R1500-2000/pm and are perfectly legal.....trying to get the money out of the success stories is also a big problem....:S

ah this is the best part of this game, all the faerie tales!!!!! i love it such bull shit like every "doping" trainer fires and collect the cash..