BOOKIES PRICING ERROR

  • rob faux
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Re: Re: BOOKIES PRICING ERROR

12 years 8 months ago
#296613
Have to agree with Fingers.........and...........

a lot ot the "unfair" rules that would NOT apply to normal business transactions came about because,for many years, gambling transactions or debts were not legally enforcable,so rules were made up unilaterally and on a "take it or leave it" basis.
The change in that law should now amend these transactions to normal business practice..........why should bookmakers be the only businesses who don't pay the penalty for cock-ups and/or bad management............it has no logic.
I doubt that all their rules would stand the court's(constitutional or otherwise) test of logic or fairness and could well be ignored in any ruling.
I'm sure it will be tested sometime soon.

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  • Bob Brogan
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Re: Re: BOOKIES PRICING ERROR

12 years 8 months ago
#296616
seemingly the below sms was sent to all bookies by the kznbookies,how they can decide a bet is null and void is beyond me.In the UK we would settle at SP


Please be advised regarding Plumpton Race1 all fixed odds bets struck prior to 12:25 are null and void due to incorrect prices being downloaded.

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  • rob faux
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Re: Re: BOOKIES PRICING ERROR

12 years 8 months ago
#296621
hibernia Wrote:
> seemingly the below sms was sent to all bookies by
> the kznbookies,how they can decide a bet is null
> and void is beyond me.In the UK we would settle at
> SP
>
>
> Please be advised regarding Plumpton Race1 all
> fixed odds bets struck prior to 12:25 are null and
> void due to incorrect prices being downloaded.

Hibs,cos Sadly,in the SA racing industry,there are many morons in these "policymaking positions" !

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  • Bob Brogan
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Re: Re: BOOKIES PRICING ERROR

12 years 8 months ago
#296626
some one is looking into it now

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  • Bob Brogan
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Re: Re: BOOKIES PRICING ERROR

12 years 8 months ago
#296643
GENERAL RULES (Incorporating Horse Racing, Sport Events & Other Contingencies)

2. Cut-off time to accept and process bets

(1) A bookmaker shall, subject to the provisions of the relevant legislation, close all betting on an event or a component within an event on which the bet is sought to be placed within thirty seconds after the event or component of the event has officially started, provided that where the event or component of the event is expected to last less than thirty seconds, betting shall be close at the commencement of the event or component of the event.

(2) In the event that a bookmaker makes use of an independent service provider to execute such a command or instruction on its behalf, the onus shall remain on the relevant licence holder to ensure that the provisions of sub-rule (1) are complied with.

3. Collection of winning bets

(1) If any winning bet payable by a licensed bookmaker is not collected within a period of 90 days from the date on which the event or contingency, in respect of which such bet was placed, took place, such bet a shall be payable at the discretion of the relevant licence holder provided that the tax on such a bet has been paid.

(2) The holder of a bookmaker licence shall, in a prominent position within its licensed premises or its website, if applicable, display a notice informing the public that winnings in respect of any bet must be claimed within a period of 90 days from the date on which the winnings become payable or such longer period as the bookmaker may allow.

4. Connected bet

If a connected bet is accepted the odds on that bet may be reduced by an amount agreed by the bookmaker and customer at the time the bet is struck

5. Related bet

If a related bet is accepted it will be settled by equally dividing the stake unit where related outcomes clash.

6. Key bet

(1) The odds for a key bet are calculated as a percentage of the bookmaker’s fixed odds win price, depending on the number of runners.

(2) In the event of scratching and the race has four runners or less:

(a) Key bets that do not form part of an ATC, are void

(b) Key bets that are included in the ATC will be recalculated by excluding the key bet leg.

(3) A bookmaker laying key bet shall display his prices on a betting display indicator or his notice board

7. Confidentiality of betting transactions

All betting transactions between a bookmaker and a customer or another bookmaker shall be strictly private and shall not be divulged to any third party other than an appointed officer, an inspector appointed in terms of the relevant legislation, a police official as defined in section 1 of the Criminal Procedure Act, 1977 (Act No. 51 of 1977), or a person specially authorised thereto in terms of any legislation, where this is done in terms of an order of a competent court or where the customer has consented thereto.

8. Void bets

(1) In the case of a void bet the stake money shall be returned to the customer.

(2) In the case of an invalid selection in a single bet, the bet shall be void.

(3) In the case of a scratched selection in a single bet, the bet shall be void except if the bet was ante post bet

(4) In the case of an invalid selection and subsequent scratching in a multiple bet, the selection shall be ignored and the stake shall run onto the other selection in the bet at the price indicated on the ticket issued. These calculations are to be done at “Full Accumulative Multiple” odds.

9. Possibility to win

(1) In all cases there must be a possibility for either party to win at the time the bet is made, failing which the bet or the affected selection, as the case may be, shall be void.

(2) All bets on contingencies which have already arisen shall be void.

10. Bets after official start of a race

Bets placed contrary to Rule 2, shall be null and void, subject to the provisions of Rule 2.

11. Acceptance of bets

(1) No bookmaker shall be compelled to accept any bet or any type of bet

(2) A cash bet shall be deemed to have been concluded once a bookmaker has issued a ticket to the customer in exchange for monetary value.

(3) A credit or deposit account bet shall be deemed to have been concluded by a bookmaker when a bookmaker has indicated to the customer that the bet has been accepted.

12. Error

(1) Where due to a mutual error the parties to a bet are not ad idem (in agreement) as to the odds at which the bet is struck, the amount of the bet or the contingency on which the bet is placed, that bet shall be void.

(2) Where due to a unilateral (one-sided) error the parties to a bet are not ad idem (in agreement) as to the amount of the bet or the contingency or selection on which the bet is placed, the bet may be cancelled or renegotiated by the party that did not make the error.

(3) Should there be an official correction of a price which had earlier been wrongly transmitted, all bets struck at that price are settled at the corrected price or starting price, whichever is the greater

(4) Should a bookmaker misstate any odds of a bet to a customer as a result of a computer malfunction the bet or selection will be deemed to have taken place on the correct price/s which were available in the general market at the time the bet was struck.

13. Settling

(1) Bookmakers shall pay out winning bets as follows:

(a) in respect of horseracing after the “all clear” has been given;

(b) in respect of other sporting events or contingencies once the medal ceremony, prize giving or podium presentation has been concluded; and .

(c) subsequent disqualification, promotion of competitors, or any other change is irrelevant for the purposes of determining the betting result.

(2) Settling of all other bets not previously paid shall take place on demand, save that –

(a) where a bookmaker has reason to doubt that a person who is the holder of a winning betting ticket is the person who purchased the said ticket, or where a bookmaker knows or reasonably ought to know that a person who is the holder of a winning betting ticket is not the person who purchased the said ticket, he shall require such person to furnish, in support of his or her claim for payment on the ticket, an affidavit setting out the grounds of the claim, and may thereupon withhold payment to such person until the expiry of 90 days calculated from the date upon which the winnings became payable, or such longer period as the bookmaker may allow;

(b) where a person who makes a claim for payment on a winning bet taken with a bookmaker, alleges that the winning betting ticket has been lost or destroyed, the bookmaker concerned shall require such person to furnish, in support of his or her claim for payment on the ticket, an affidavit setting out the grounds of the claim and the factors on which it is alleged the ticket was lost, and may thereupon withhold payment to such person until the expiry of 90 days calculated from the date upon which the winnings became payable, or such longer period as the bookmaker may allow; and

(c) the bookmaker shall retain along with the records required to be retained in terms of the relevant legislation, all affidavits contemplated in terms of paragraphs (a) and (b).

14. Rules for other contingencies.

In all betting relating to contingencies other than horseracing and sports the rules set out above shall apply with the necessary changes to all circumstances not specifically covered.

SECTION C

BETTING RULES FOR HORSERACING

15. Ante post bets

(1) With the exception of starting price bets, should any selection not run for any reason other than the abandonment of the race itself –

(a) an ante post bet shall be lost and the customer shall forfeit his stake; and

(b) ante post bets struck on other horses/contestants in the race concerned shall not be subject to any adjustment in betting odds.

(2) Where a race is abandoned, all ante post bets that are still live or undetermined involving the race concerned, shall become void.

(3) Should a selected horse/contestant in any leg of a multiple event bet be scratched, withdrawn or not accepted prior to the bet becoming void or being won, the bet shall be regarded as lost, notwithstanding the fact that any included race is abandoned.

16. Display of odds

(1) A bookmaker laying ante post bets shall display the prices on the betting display indicator, whether on the physical bookmaker premises or an Internet Website, and indicate a price against the name of each and every horse/contestant in the race.

(2) In all races on which a bookmaker is laying bets a price shall be shown against each and every horse not officially scratched.

(3) Doubtful starters must be indicated as such.

17. Betting “with a run”

(1) Where a single bet is made “with a run” and the selected horse/contestant is scratched the bet shall become void.

(2) All bets struck “with a run” on the remaining horses/contestants in a race where one or more horses/contestants have been scratched, shall be subject to the deductions detailed in rule 18.

(3) Where a deduction applies to remaining runners in any event of a multiple event bet “with a run”, the relevant deduction in terms of rule 18 shall be applied to the runner/contestants of the event where the scratching occurred, and the entire bet recalculated in respect of the event from which the horse was scratched.

(4) Any bets “with a run” struck after the official announcement of the withdrawal of one or more horses/contestants shall not be subject to any deduction, unless there is a further withdrawal or withdrawals.

(5) Where a race is abandoned, all bets “with a run” on the race concerned shall become void.

(6) In starting price multiple bets “with a run”, winnings on winning bets shall be calculated and paid at the official starting prices, subject to the provisions of rule 22.

18. Deductions

(1) Where a horse/contestant is withdrawn before or after coming under starter’s orders, all fixed odds bets on that horse/contestant shall be void, and all bets struck as fixed odds on the remaining horses/contestants on the day of the race or “with a run” shall be subject to deduction calculated in accordance with the following table –

ODDS OF WITHDRAWN HORSE OR CONTESTANT DEDUCTIONS

25 /1 and bigger No deduction

13/1 to 20/1 5 %

9/1 to 12/1 10 %

ODDS OF WITHDRAWN HORSE OR CONTESTANT DEDUCTIONS

6/1 to 8/1 15 %

4/1 to 11/2 20 %

3/1 to 7/2 25 %

22/10 to 28/10 30 %

16/10 to 2/1 35 %

13/10 to 15/10 40 %

11/10 to 12/10 45 %

1/1 50 %

8/10 to 9/10 55 %

6/10 to 7/10 60 %

5/10 65 %

4/10 70 %

1/3 and shorter 80 %

NB: Margins of odds not covered will default to the lower deduction amount %

(2) Any bets struck “with a run” after the official announcement of the withdrawal of one of or more horses/contestants shall not be subject to any adjustment unless there are further withdrawals.

(3) Should two horses/contestants be withdrawn simultaneously and both are subject to a deduction on any winning bets, the deduction s shall be applied separately and not simultaneously.

(4) Deductions shall not apply to starting price bets, unless a late withdrawal(s) occurs.

19. Postponed races

Where a race advertised to be run on a certain date is postponed to any future date –

(1) all ante post bets on such race shall stand;

(2) within 48 hours after the original advertised date at the same venue, all bets “with a run” shall stand;

(3) more than 48 hours after its initial scheduling, the race shall be deemed to have been abandoned for betting purposes, and bets “with a run” shall be treated as described in rule 17.

20. Change of venue or track

Where the venue of a race or track is changed from that originally advertised, the race shall be deemed to have been abandoned and such bets shall be treated as described in rule 19 mutatis mutandis.

21. Dead heats

(1) In the case of a dead heat in a match race the bet shall be void, unless odds were offered on the outcome being a dead heat.

(2) In the case of a two horses/contestants dead heat in races other than “match races”, and also in winning multiple event bets where one race results in a dead heat, the customer shall lose half of the amount staked and the entire bet is then recalculated as a result of the event where the dead heat occurred.

(3) In winning multiple events bets where two races result in dead heats, the customer shall win the odds to one quarter of the stake and lose the other three quarters, and so on for further dead heats.

(4) Notwithstanding the provisions of rule 21(2), in the case of a three horse/contestant dead heat in a multiple event bets, where one race/event results in a triple dead heat, the customer shall lose two thirds of the odds in the event where the dead heat occurs and lose two thirds of the stake and the entire bet is recalculated as a result of the event where the dead heat occurred.

22. Starting prices and tote odds

(1) In starting price bets, the starting price shall be the last official fixed price disseminated either from the race track or recognised dissemination facility, as displayed on the betting board indicator at the start of the event.

(2) In the event of a late withdrawal where no new betting is displayed before the start of a race, the starting price shall be the last price displayed, subject to the adjustment reflected in the deduction table in rule 18.

(3) Unless otherwise stipulated in the form of limits, any place betting at tote odds shall be settled in accordance with tote dividends. The bookmaker can however pay more than the official tote dividend, subject to this being agreed to at the time the bet is struck.

(4) In starting price bets and open bets, any limits to actual dividends, odds and payouts which apply, shall be prominently displayed and be made available at all times by the bookmaker.

23. Open bets

The following shall apply to “open bets” –

(1) all open bets offered by a bookmaker shall be subject to limits as determined by the bookmaker if any;

(2) the limits and conditions applicable to any bet type must be clearly displayed on the notice board, website or other relevant media of the bookmaker concerned.

24. Place betting at fixed odds

The following shall apply to place betting at fixed odds:

(1) in races of 6-7 runners the 1st and 2nd place will be payable

(2) in races of 8 or more the 1st , 2nd and 3rd place will be payable;

(3) all place bets are subject to the rules relating scratching, deductions and dead heats;

(4) a bookmaker laying place bets shall display his prices on the betting display indicator or his notice board

25. Races re-run

In the event of any race being ordered to be re-run –

(1) “starting price” bets shall be calculated and paid at the current price at the time the race is finally run;

(2) “with a run” bets on any horse/contestant, which started on the first occasion and which were subsequently scratched, that bet shall be void and the deductions in terms of rule 18 shall apply; and

(3) “ante-post” bets shall stand.

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  • Greg Murrell
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Re: Re: BOOKIES PRICING ERROR

12 years 8 months ago
#296672
The first rule on this appears to be clear, which is "if any selection which makes up
part of a multiple becomes void, then the multiple itself does not become void".

So there was no way anyone can VOID a full multiple bet.

I have spoken the the trading office at Marshalls,World of Sport, and they tell me
that all bets were paid out on the first leg or any legs other than the Plumpton race.
Also that all customers were informed of the dissemination error from KZN Bookies,

Mistakes do occur, and in this case the pricing was an obvious error.

To ensure complete transparency before I get flamed, I do now work for Marshalls,
after having been an independent bookmaker for 33 years. We have weekly Skype
meetings were issues like this are discussed, so if anyone experiences a problem
with Marshalls World of Sport, please feel free to contact me, and I will follow up on
your behalf.

Greg Murrell

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  • Flash Harry
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Re: Re: BOOKIES PRICING ERROR

12 years 8 months ago
#296675
j

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  • Bob Brogan
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Re: Re: BOOKIES PRICING ERROR

12 years 8 months ago
#296680
Thanks Greg, but why should both legs not be paid? plumpton leg at the sp?

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  • Greg Murrell
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Re: Re: BOOKIES PRICING ERROR

12 years 8 months ago
#296686
As I understand it, the affected punters were advised BEFORE the
Plumpton race, and were paid out on the first leg prior to the running
of the Plumpton race.

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  • rob faux
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Re: Re: BOOKIES PRICING ERROR

12 years 8 months ago
#296710
Compliments to Greg for transparency and willingness to engage..............appreciated by clan ,I'm sure!

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  • RACING GURU
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Re: Re: BOOKIES PRICING ERROR

12 years 8 months ago
#296796
gjmurrell Wrote:
> As I understand it, the affected punters were
> advised BEFORE the
> Plumpton race, and were paid out on the first leg
> prior to the running
> of the Plumpton race.


greg..i was not paid out on the first leg..as u make it seem to others on this forum..it was only after a 10 min phone call on my cell may i add to your half wit managers..who only want things their way that they then saw reason to pay out my first leg..and that too wasn't straight forward....i had to physically go put another 5grand in my account so that they then opened the race again and laid me what i was due on the first leg...instead of just crediting me...they made my life more difficult....but i have it on good authority another big client of yours has not accepted your null and void bet,,,and wants to test this case/.....will be waiting with bated breath to hear the outcome...

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  • rob faux
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Re: Re: BOOKIES PRICING ERROR

12 years 8 months ago
#296800
Delighted to hear that news RG.............a judgement (they often set precedents more wide than just the specific case)might just start a whole new set of rules for bookmakers.............and about time.
(Wait till discriminatory limits gets tested.............lol)

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