Scottsville 5 Place Investigation
- rob faux
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Re: Re: Scottsville 5 Place Investigation
12 years 6 months ago
The situation with co-mingling is simple IMO:
a)Punters were promised that increased pools meant better payouts.........very logical ,so why has the opposite being true?
b)activities like was described today cannot make sense to anybody with a braincell ..........this calls for a combined international investigation as to who and why ..............it cannot possibly be above board unless placed by a mentally challenged millionaire
c)Vee Moodly calls for refrain from speculation..........then be honest :Why,on another thread did you answer a specific question by quoting averages...........that is ambigeous and deceptive!
d)Come clean with the take-outs/commisions/guarantees that apply individually to the various pools/arrangements?
a)Punters were promised that increased pools meant better payouts.........very logical ,so why has the opposite being true?
b)activities like was described today cannot make sense to anybody with a braincell ..........this calls for a combined international investigation as to who and why ..............it cannot possibly be above board unless placed by a mentally challenged millionaire
c)Vee Moodly calls for refrain from speculation..........then be honest :Why,on another thread did you answer a specific question by quoting averages...........that is ambigeous and deceptive!
d)Come clean with the take-outs/commisions/guarantees that apply individually to the various pools/arrangements?
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- BATMAN
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- Chris van Buuren
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Re: Re: Scottsville 5 Place Investigation
12 years 6 months ago
What I'm wondering now is that if this mystery punter (we have to assume it is only one guy, or perhaps two in which case money laundering is a HUGE possibility...its like betting bank and player on baccarat....the only thing you have to worry about is the 5% vig if bank wins) placed these bets he must have known that he could only get back what he played plus the 4 cents on the dollar.....wouldn't it have made more sense to have win bets and take the 10 cents on the dollar in what was clearly a two horse race?
Perhaps this punter/s prefer to limit their maximization of their ROI???? they got burned anyway as the 2nd one didn't arrive.....that is assuming (which we must as the dividends were the same) that they placed the bets on the 2 strong favorites????
I think the point Vee and everyone at Phumelela is missing is the fact that these large wagers from outside of SA may in essence seem good for SA racing but all its doing is weakening the local market. The predominant part of the local people back favorites or horses who are in the top 3 in the betting,,,,these are the horses who are now subject to crazy pay offs. If you had a strong fav like chosen goddess, no way should orange blossom have paid R1-00 a place, but rather the customary R1-10...who gets screwed, the punters........
there is NO value in the tote because lets face it, there is a reason why the Kotzen horse paid R23 a place, she had NO chance at the weights.......and consequently almost nobody bet her.......
Once again I stress the following, do an exercise for yourselves. The horses who pay such short amounts on the tote are the ones who have very attractive "last 7 run" stats.....in other words horses have paid way less than they should have simply bases on their last 7 runs, irrespective of whether they were in kimberley or in jozi.
there are mystery punters from aus, they are betting into our pools, they are making skewed payouts......
The only people who benefit here is Phumelela and their international partners or PGE or whatever they are called....You heard Vee, international co-mingling is the future......
NOT South African racing........(Should maybe have worded that better big man)
Perhaps this punter/s prefer to limit their maximization of their ROI???? they got burned anyway as the 2nd one didn't arrive.....that is assuming (which we must as the dividends were the same) that they placed the bets on the 2 strong favorites????
I think the point Vee and everyone at Phumelela is missing is the fact that these large wagers from outside of SA may in essence seem good for SA racing but all its doing is weakening the local market. The predominant part of the local people back favorites or horses who are in the top 3 in the betting,,,,these are the horses who are now subject to crazy pay offs. If you had a strong fav like chosen goddess, no way should orange blossom have paid R1-00 a place, but rather the customary R1-10...who gets screwed, the punters........
there is NO value in the tote because lets face it, there is a reason why the Kotzen horse paid R23 a place, she had NO chance at the weights.......and consequently almost nobody bet her.......
Once again I stress the following, do an exercise for yourselves. The horses who pay such short amounts on the tote are the ones who have very attractive "last 7 run" stats.....in other words horses have paid way less than they should have simply bases on their last 7 runs, irrespective of whether they were in kimberley or in jozi.
there are mystery punters from aus, they are betting into our pools, they are making skewed payouts......
The only people who benefit here is Phumelela and their international partners or PGE or whatever they are called....You heard Vee, international co-mingling is the future......
NOT South African racing........(Should maybe have worded that better big man)
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- Einstein
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Re: Re: Scottsville 5 Place Investigation
12 years 6 months ago
TRUST.This is the key word in any relationship,and the bottom line Vee is that local punters do not trust your business anymore.Something stinks and we never get any answers.Blah blah blah the audit shows nothing.This is the usual spin we hear all the time.
Vee,can you please answer one simple question.
1)Do international punters get guarentees/commisions or whatever you would term them.
I see he has addressed this question.
Vee,can you please answer one simple question.
1)Do international punters get guarentees/commisions or whatever you would term them.
I see he has addressed this question.
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- Einstein
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Re: Re: Scottsville 5 Place Investigation
12 years 6 months ago
This is an advert I found online.
Special Deal for Hong Kong,Singapore Horse Bettors from Canbet Sports Bookmakers
8% Hong Kong / Singapore Racing Rebate
Place a wager Win/Place on Singapore /Hong Kong horse racing and Canbet Bookmakers will credit your Canbet account with a 8% cashback on any losing bets.
6% Rebate Trifecta and Quinella Bets.
Members at Canbet Bookmakers also get a 6% cashback for Quinella and Trifecta bets at Singapore /Hong Kong racetracks.
Please note these rebates only apply to Canbets SP+ betting only (fixed odds wagers are excluded).
Bet SP+ at Canbet Bookmakers and your returns are guaranteed to exceed the local Hong Kong and Singapore Tote for Win, Place,Trifecta and Quinella dividends.
Individual account holders only will benefit,and sorry,syndicates will not get rebate.
Special Deal for Hong Kong,Singapore Horse Bettors from Canbet Sports Bookmakers
8% Hong Kong / Singapore Racing Rebate
Place a wager Win/Place on Singapore /Hong Kong horse racing and Canbet Bookmakers will credit your Canbet account with a 8% cashback on any losing bets.
6% Rebate Trifecta and Quinella Bets.
Members at Canbet Bookmakers also get a 6% cashback for Quinella and Trifecta bets at Singapore /Hong Kong racetracks.
Please note these rebates only apply to Canbets SP+ betting only (fixed odds wagers are excluded).
Bet SP+ at Canbet Bookmakers and your returns are guaranteed to exceed the local Hong Kong and Singapore Tote for Win, Place,Trifecta and Quinella dividends.
Individual account holders only will benefit,and sorry,syndicates will not get rebate.
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- Einstein
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Re: Re: Scottsville 5 Place Investigation
12 years 6 months ago
The above clearly shows that guarentees/commisions are happening.Isn't it time we as the punter knew the truth.
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- umlilo
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Re: Re: Scottsville 5 Place Investigation
12 years 6 months ago
@Einstein:
'shows that guarentees/commisions are happening.Isn't it time we as the punter knew the truth'
get a petition going and report for actioning to the President, Min of DTI, Provincial MEC's and their Gambling Boards, Public Protector, Competitions Commissions, Consumer Council.
Problem is; who will bell the cat?
(tu)
'shows that guarentees/commisions are happening.Isn't it time we as the punter knew the truth'
get a petition going and report for actioning to the President, Min of DTI, Provincial MEC's and their Gambling Boards, Public Protector, Competitions Commissions, Consumer Council.
Problem is; who will bell the cat?
(tu)
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- Einstein
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Re: Re: Scottsville 5 Place Investigation
12 years 6 months ago
You only have to google things these day and it's amazing what you find.Look at this.NOTE THE HIGHLIGHTED LINES.
Taxman targets the king of punters Zeljko Ranogajec
BY:BRENDAN CORMICK AND CAMERON STEWART From: The Australian December 24, 2011 12:00AM
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Zeljko Ranogajec enjoying a walk around Balmoral in Sydney. Picture: Craig Greenhill Source: The Australian
AUSTRALIA'S biggest gambler, a reclusive maths wiz who bets more than $1 billion each year, is being examined by the Australian Taxation Office.
Tasmanian-born Zeljko Ranogajec accounts for between 6 and 8 per cent of Tabcorp's $10bn Australian betting turnover and is said by experts to be the world's biggest punter.
Now, the mysterious son of Croatian immigrants faces an ATO audit, according to his business partner and fellow gambler David Walsh.
Ranogajec recently helped fund Walsh's dream of building Hobart's newest tourist drawcard, the $70 million Museum of Old and New Art and Walsh says he feels deeply indebted to his former university colleague.
"He is being audited (by the tax office) at the moment but I am sure it will turn out amicably," Walsh tells The Weekend Australian.
"Does he owe them money? I suspect he reckons he doesn't and they reckon he does."
Walsh says he and Ranogajec have discussed the audit, which he says is due to be completed by next September.
"The assumption that he owes them money depends on the assumption that gambling is taxable and that has never happened in Australia," Walsh says.
"At this stage no gambler in Australian history has ever been taxable."
The Weekend Australian understands that the ATO has asked Ranogajec for financial records going back seven years. Ranogajec, who is in Europe with his wife and daughter, did not respond to questions from The Weekend Australian and the ATO declined to comment, citing privacy provisions.
A man never spotted at racetracks or casinos, Ranogajec defies the image of the traditional flamboyant punter from the rich history of Australian thoroughbred racing. They wore expensive suits, had flash cars and dined at the best restaurants. They had names like "Hollywood" George Edser, the "Prince of Punters" Perc Galea, the "Filipino Fireball" Felipe Ysmael and Eddie "The Fireman" Birchley.
Ego drove them and, for some, was their downfall.
Not so Ranogajec. He has been dubbed the "Loch Ness Monster", simply because he is so rarely seen. Rivalled on the world stage only by a couple of Hong Kong's betting syndicates, he is the exact opposite of his punting rivals.
He is reclusive, loathes media attention and demands discretion from his employees and information and service providers.
He and his wife, Shelley Wilson, own properties across Australia including a $20m, 2000sq m waterfront property on two blocks at Sydney's Balmoral Beach.
Ranogajec is also believed to use the pseudonym John Wilson.
He has never granted an interview and has been nominated by racing websites as probably the world's biggest punter. A senior wagering source estimated the man known among the gambling elite simply by his Christian name, invests as much as $3bn across numerous international markets where pari mutuel (tote) systems operate, including the US, France, Britain and Hong Kong.
Besides horse racing, he bets on sport, lotteries and the stockmarket. Ranogajec has spent millions of dollars trying to find a legal way to "beat" lotto and has studied the stockmarket, looking for behavioural patterns and ways to manipulate share prices to his advantage under certain conditions.
In Australia, he bets on every thoroughbred race. There is no racing on Good Friday or Christmas Day, though you can bet a major race meeting in Japan tomorrow will not have escaped his attention.
Hundreds of bets are queued up in the TAB system and are placed in the final seconds as horses fill the barrier stalls, so that opportunistic betters cannot follow the money as the odds tumble. Win and place bets may fit into his repertoire, but the big money is in the exotics - trifectas (1st, 2nd, 3rd), quartets (the first four placegetters) and quaddies (the winners of four nominated races). These types of bets offer big pools and opportunities for big payouts.
At the major carnivals, when there is a lot of "mug money" wagered by uninformed and once-a-year punters, the rewards for Ranogajec are at their highest. A source at One Tote Tasmania said a file detailing his betting activities one Melbourne Cup Day was "an inch thick".
Betting on horses is not a perfect science. When champion mare Makybe Diva was preparing to win an unprecedented third Melbourne Cup in 2005, Ranogajec bet against her, laying her over an extended period leading up to the morning of the race. Trainer Lee Freedman threatened not to start Makybe Diva if the track was presented like a bitumen road. The Victoria Racing Club's ground staff watered the track enough to ensure it would remain forgiving in the warm conditions.
Makybe Diva duly ran and won. Ranogajec endured a loss that amounted to double figures with six zeroes on the end.
He has been known to diversify his gambling to include even scratch-and-win tickets. One anecdote relates to a company, keen to market a new theme with their scratchy tickets, getting in touch with Ranogajec. It was explained that a portion of the tickets had been sold, though tens of thousands remained and nobody had come forward with the major prize winning ticket and therefore it must be in the remainder.
Ranogajec bought them and paid someone to scratch the opaque covering off all the tickets. At the end of the exercise, it became evident that the winning ticket had been sold to a customer at a shop, who had discarded it, not realising it was a winner.
One bookmaking identity said Ranogajec could walk through Melbourne's Bourke Street Mall and nobody would recognise him or look at him twice.
He is known to bookmakers but is too big and too frequently successful for them to entertain his business.
He is responsible for more than $650m, or 8 per cent, of the annual turnover from Victorian and NSW-rooted company Tabcorp. That figure does not include Tote Tasmania, which is soon to be absorbed into Tatts' betting pools, with which he also conducts business and which control TAB betting in Queensland, South Australia and the Northern Territory.
Wagering outlets have courted Ranogajec with rebates of between 6 and 10 per cent on his turnover. He is betting exchange Betfair's biggest antipodean client, thought to be responsible for a third of the company's Australian operations.
Racing stewards have had, on rare occasions, the need to query his betting activities, but have never had suspicion of corrupt activity. In fact, they say he appears to have no connection with jockeys or trainers. The only thing that got him into strife punting was his cardcounting ability, which, although not illegal, saw him barred from gambling on blackjack tables at every casino in Australia.
One steward said his panel queried wagers on a horse to lose on Betfair, but Ranogajec produced proof that he had backed the same horse to win with TAB. The dividends were such that no matter whether the horse won or lost, Ranogajec had more than covered his outlay.
The 49-year-old has amassed his personal wealth from gambling, accelerated by a $7.5m Keno jackpot. He was a formidable blackjack player and began to accumulate his fortune at Wrest Point Casino. He joined forces with Walsh and two others at the University of Tasmania to develop the gambling empire. One of them died when accidentally run over by a car. Walsh is the only member of the group that remains involved with Ranogajec.
The key to Ranogajec's success is often said to be a slender profit margin. Another industry figure, who did not wish to be named, says: "If anybody tells you that you can't win on the punt, he (Ranogajec) is proof that you can."
Working on an annual turnover said to be $1bn, he grosses $10m for every 1 per cent of profit. One high-profile individual engaged an actuary to replicate Ranogajec's model, but to no avail and he eventually gave up.
Speaking to The Weekend Australian, one close observer of Ranogajec's business yesterday debunked that theory, saying that, with attractive rebates, it was possible to break even on a series of bets and profit close to 10 per cent with the rebate alone. When he gets a race "right" the profit can be as high as 15 per cent.
Walsh says he has been mates with Ranogajec for more than 30 years.
"I met him at Wrest Point which was then Australia's only casino," he says. "We weren't particularly serious about gambling. The casino was quite near the university and it was a fun thing to do. It was very much a recreational pastime."
Walsh says they enjoyed gambling as a hobby and, using the logic of probability, they began to prove that they could win.
"The confluence of enjoying gambling and being able to win meant we did more of it," he says. "It's what I still do today and it takes up the majority of my time.
"The difference between winning and losing is knife-edged. It can be a tiny percentage, so it is an interesting thing to try to figure out that percentage.
"There is nothing particularly profound about this. We've been successful but the rules are simple and there are a million books that tell you how to do it. You just need to know what the odds are."
Walsh says that Ranogajec has never had a run-in with the law over his gambling.
"And there is absolutely no reason why he should have," he says. "The way we gamble is completely at a stand off from the event."
Walsh says the industry is "better off" for the money that people such as Ranogajec pump into it.
The Weekend Australian visited Ranogajec's double-fronted property in Mosman. A neighbour said they had never seen him there. A tenant in another Mosman property belonging to the Ranogajecs had not heard of him. Ranogajec's wife is the landlord.
A lavish home on Coronation Avenue, Mosman - possibly the Ranogajecs' primary residence - was bought for $5.96m in a dispersal of assets of Brad Cooper, a central figure in the HIH scandal.
Level 3, 495 Harris Street in Sydney's Ultimo - the building that houses Tabcorp's NSW regional office - is the registered address of some of Ranogajec's businesses, including Minefield Investments, Paziti Holdings and Razson Pty Ltd.
According to one insider who spoke to The Weekend Australian, Ranogajec has left Australia to live in England. He says the move allows the mega-punter to better control his global operation from a central location.
Walsh confirms Ranogajec is in Europe with his family "looking for betting opportunities".
'He won't be back for awhile," he says.
Additional reporting: Anthony Klan
Taxman targets the king of punters Zeljko Ranogajec
BY:BRENDAN CORMICK AND CAMERON STEWART From: The Australian December 24, 2011 12:00AM
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Zeljko Ranogajec enjoying a walk around Balmoral in Sydney. Picture: Craig Greenhill Source: The Australian
AUSTRALIA'S biggest gambler, a reclusive maths wiz who bets more than $1 billion each year, is being examined by the Australian Taxation Office.
Tasmanian-born Zeljko Ranogajec accounts for between 6 and 8 per cent of Tabcorp's $10bn Australian betting turnover and is said by experts to be the world's biggest punter.
Now, the mysterious son of Croatian immigrants faces an ATO audit, according to his business partner and fellow gambler David Walsh.
Ranogajec recently helped fund Walsh's dream of building Hobart's newest tourist drawcard, the $70 million Museum of Old and New Art and Walsh says he feels deeply indebted to his former university colleague.
"He is being audited (by the tax office) at the moment but I am sure it will turn out amicably," Walsh tells The Weekend Australian.
"Does he owe them money? I suspect he reckons he doesn't and they reckon he does."
Walsh says he and Ranogajec have discussed the audit, which he says is due to be completed by next September.
"The assumption that he owes them money depends on the assumption that gambling is taxable and that has never happened in Australia," Walsh says.
"At this stage no gambler in Australian history has ever been taxable."
The Weekend Australian understands that the ATO has asked Ranogajec for financial records going back seven years. Ranogajec, who is in Europe with his wife and daughter, did not respond to questions from The Weekend Australian and the ATO declined to comment, citing privacy provisions.
A man never spotted at racetracks or casinos, Ranogajec defies the image of the traditional flamboyant punter from the rich history of Australian thoroughbred racing. They wore expensive suits, had flash cars and dined at the best restaurants. They had names like "Hollywood" George Edser, the "Prince of Punters" Perc Galea, the "Filipino Fireball" Felipe Ysmael and Eddie "The Fireman" Birchley.
Ego drove them and, for some, was their downfall.
Not so Ranogajec. He has been dubbed the "Loch Ness Monster", simply because he is so rarely seen. Rivalled on the world stage only by a couple of Hong Kong's betting syndicates, he is the exact opposite of his punting rivals.
He is reclusive, loathes media attention and demands discretion from his employees and information and service providers.
He and his wife, Shelley Wilson, own properties across Australia including a $20m, 2000sq m waterfront property on two blocks at Sydney's Balmoral Beach.
Ranogajec is also believed to use the pseudonym John Wilson.
He has never granted an interview and has been nominated by racing websites as probably the world's biggest punter. A senior wagering source estimated the man known among the gambling elite simply by his Christian name, invests as much as $3bn across numerous international markets where pari mutuel (tote) systems operate, including the US, France, Britain and Hong Kong.
Besides horse racing, he bets on sport, lotteries and the stockmarket. Ranogajec has spent millions of dollars trying to find a legal way to "beat" lotto and has studied the stockmarket, looking for behavioural patterns and ways to manipulate share prices to his advantage under certain conditions.
In Australia, he bets on every thoroughbred race. There is no racing on Good Friday or Christmas Day, though you can bet a major race meeting in Japan tomorrow will not have escaped his attention.
Hundreds of bets are queued up in the TAB system and are placed in the final seconds as horses fill the barrier stalls, so that opportunistic betters cannot follow the money as the odds tumble. Win and place bets may fit into his repertoire, but the big money is in the exotics - trifectas (1st, 2nd, 3rd), quartets (the first four placegetters) and quaddies (the winners of four nominated races). These types of bets offer big pools and opportunities for big payouts.
At the major carnivals, when there is a lot of "mug money" wagered by uninformed and once-a-year punters, the rewards for Ranogajec are at their highest. A source at One Tote Tasmania said a file detailing his betting activities one Melbourne Cup Day was "an inch thick".
Betting on horses is not a perfect science. When champion mare Makybe Diva was preparing to win an unprecedented third Melbourne Cup in 2005, Ranogajec bet against her, laying her over an extended period leading up to the morning of the race. Trainer Lee Freedman threatened not to start Makybe Diva if the track was presented like a bitumen road. The Victoria Racing Club's ground staff watered the track enough to ensure it would remain forgiving in the warm conditions.
Makybe Diva duly ran and won. Ranogajec endured a loss that amounted to double figures with six zeroes on the end.
He has been known to diversify his gambling to include even scratch-and-win tickets. One anecdote relates to a company, keen to market a new theme with their scratchy tickets, getting in touch with Ranogajec. It was explained that a portion of the tickets had been sold, though tens of thousands remained and nobody had come forward with the major prize winning ticket and therefore it must be in the remainder.
Ranogajec bought them and paid someone to scratch the opaque covering off all the tickets. At the end of the exercise, it became evident that the winning ticket had been sold to a customer at a shop, who had discarded it, not realising it was a winner.
One bookmaking identity said Ranogajec could walk through Melbourne's Bourke Street Mall and nobody would recognise him or look at him twice.
He is known to bookmakers but is too big and too frequently successful for them to entertain his business.
He is responsible for more than $650m, or 8 per cent, of the annual turnover from Victorian and NSW-rooted company Tabcorp. That figure does not include Tote Tasmania, which is soon to be absorbed into Tatts' betting pools, with which he also conducts business and which control TAB betting in Queensland, South Australia and the Northern Territory.
Wagering outlets have courted Ranogajec with rebates of between 6 and 10 per cent on his turnover. He is betting exchange Betfair's biggest antipodean client, thought to be responsible for a third of the company's Australian operations.
Racing stewards have had, on rare occasions, the need to query his betting activities, but have never had suspicion of corrupt activity. In fact, they say he appears to have no connection with jockeys or trainers. The only thing that got him into strife punting was his cardcounting ability, which, although not illegal, saw him barred from gambling on blackjack tables at every casino in Australia.
One steward said his panel queried wagers on a horse to lose on Betfair, but Ranogajec produced proof that he had backed the same horse to win with TAB. The dividends were such that no matter whether the horse won or lost, Ranogajec had more than covered his outlay.
The 49-year-old has amassed his personal wealth from gambling, accelerated by a $7.5m Keno jackpot. He was a formidable blackjack player and began to accumulate his fortune at Wrest Point Casino. He joined forces with Walsh and two others at the University of Tasmania to develop the gambling empire. One of them died when accidentally run over by a car. Walsh is the only member of the group that remains involved with Ranogajec.
The key to Ranogajec's success is often said to be a slender profit margin. Another industry figure, who did not wish to be named, says: "If anybody tells you that you can't win on the punt, he (Ranogajec) is proof that you can."
Working on an annual turnover said to be $1bn, he grosses $10m for every 1 per cent of profit. One high-profile individual engaged an actuary to replicate Ranogajec's model, but to no avail and he eventually gave up.
Speaking to The Weekend Australian, one close observer of Ranogajec's business yesterday debunked that theory, saying that, with attractive rebates, it was possible to break even on a series of bets and profit close to 10 per cent with the rebate alone. When he gets a race "right" the profit can be as high as 15 per cent.
Walsh says he has been mates with Ranogajec for more than 30 years.
"I met him at Wrest Point which was then Australia's only casino," he says. "We weren't particularly serious about gambling. The casino was quite near the university and it was a fun thing to do. It was very much a recreational pastime."
Walsh says they enjoyed gambling as a hobby and, using the logic of probability, they began to prove that they could win.
"The confluence of enjoying gambling and being able to win meant we did more of it," he says. "It's what I still do today and it takes up the majority of my time.
"The difference between winning and losing is knife-edged. It can be a tiny percentage, so it is an interesting thing to try to figure out that percentage.
"There is nothing particularly profound about this. We've been successful but the rules are simple and there are a million books that tell you how to do it. You just need to know what the odds are."
Walsh says that Ranogajec has never had a run-in with the law over his gambling.
"And there is absolutely no reason why he should have," he says. "The way we gamble is completely at a stand off from the event."
Walsh says the industry is "better off" for the money that people such as Ranogajec pump into it.
The Weekend Australian visited Ranogajec's double-fronted property in Mosman. A neighbour said they had never seen him there. A tenant in another Mosman property belonging to the Ranogajecs had not heard of him. Ranogajec's wife is the landlord.
A lavish home on Coronation Avenue, Mosman - possibly the Ranogajecs' primary residence - was bought for $5.96m in a dispersal of assets of Brad Cooper, a central figure in the HIH scandal.
Level 3, 495 Harris Street in Sydney's Ultimo - the building that houses Tabcorp's NSW regional office - is the registered address of some of Ranogajec's businesses, including Minefield Investments, Paziti Holdings and Razson Pty Ltd.
According to one insider who spoke to The Weekend Australian, Ranogajec has left Australia to live in England. He says the move allows the mega-punter to better control his global operation from a central location.
Walsh confirms Ranogajec is in Europe with his family "looking for betting opportunities".
'He won't be back for awhile," he says.
Additional reporting: Anthony Klan
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Re: Re: Scottsville 5 Place Investigation
12 years 6 months ago
This must be the guy that placed yesterdays bets.
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Re: Re: Scottsville 5 Place Investigation
12 years 6 months ago
My take on this is that normally people with large sums of money are clever or thieves ?
If they are clever they would not put large stakes via a tote operation, if the money was to recycle its a possibility?
Putting speculation one side we now have a situation where our tote will continue to become more a lottery that a calculate wager odds vs form and could make studying a waste of time if the serious punter is looking for value
The confidence in the tote has long gone and all indications are is that it will continue.
You only have to go to search above and put the word "tote" (all dates) will take you back to the early days of Dettori on a 6/1 paying R2.10 and was NOT the tote fav, all these posts or customers concerns should be printed on hard copy and placed around the walls of the Phumelela board room and brainstormed.
Maybe also do the same with "Hollywood" and get an indication how to treat YOUR customers and gain confidence.
Please note the views and post re the tote are not posted by some secret Clan gathering but from tote or ex tote punters.
Makes you think? (or does it)
If they are clever they would not put large stakes via a tote operation, if the money was to recycle its a possibility?
Putting speculation one side we now have a situation where our tote will continue to become more a lottery that a calculate wager odds vs form and could make studying a waste of time if the serious punter is looking for value
The confidence in the tote has long gone and all indications are is that it will continue.
You only have to go to search above and put the word "tote" (all dates) will take you back to the early days of Dettori on a 6/1 paying R2.10 and was NOT the tote fav, all these posts or customers concerns should be printed on hard copy and placed around the walls of the Phumelela board room and brainstormed.
Maybe also do the same with "Hollywood" and get an indication how to treat YOUR customers and gain confidence.
Please note the views and post re the tote are not posted by some secret Clan gathering but from tote or ex tote punters.
Makes you think? (or does it)
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Re: Re: Scottsville 5 Place Investigation
12 years 6 months ago
There are clearly a lot of ex-tote punters on this site.They will also remain so.Why would anybody want to bet with our tote,we are clearly disadvantaged vs international clients and we haven't got the slightest clue what return we might get on our bets these days.The scary part for me is that Phumelela obviously doesn't give a damn,as they are definitely not trying to win back lost customers.International players and co-mingling are the buzz words,and that is where Phumelela perceives it's revenue of the future to lie.They are probably correct of course,but does that mean that local punters are now just a pain in the arse and deserve to be treated as such?
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Re: Re: Scottsville 5 Place Investigation
12 years 6 months agoPlease Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
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