THE COST OF PUNTING

gregbucks Wrote:

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> well surely the guys on the forum that win that
> amount week in week out would be able to
> answer....


what do you mean week in and week out? More like on a daily basis and to think that they dont even share their inside info prior to the race.:X

gregbucks Wrote:

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> well surely the guys on the forum that win that
> amount week in week out would be able to
> answer....

Lol you crack me up buddy

Richie77 Wrote:

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> hibernia Wrote:
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> > > > Garrick, can I ask, what is the 40% you
> > mention
> > > at
> > > > the end... tax on "earnings"? If so, does
> > that
> > > > mean the person who won over R400k on their
> > > R3.60
> > > > soccer 13 bet will lose 40% of the 400k to
> > > SARS?
> > >
> > > ALREADY taxed by the operators, methinks.:S
> >
> > What about income tax ? If your making a living
> > from gambling you must be due to pay tax
>
> Again it would need to be proved that your revenue
> is income vs capital. If revenue you would be
> taxed only on the winnigns over the year and not
> on each individual payout.

If they tax you on the income you can claim the losses too surely?

avanza Wrote:

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> > > > > Garrick, can I ask, what is the 40% you
> > > mention
> > > > at
> > > > > the end... tax on "earnings"? If so, does
> > > that
> > > > > mean the person who won over R400k on
> their
> > > > R3.60
> > > > > soccer 13 bet will lose 40% of the 400k
> to
> > > > SARS?
> > > >
> > > > ALREADY taxed by the operators, methinks.:S
> > >
> > > What about income tax ? If your making a
> living
> > > from gambling you must be due to pay tax
> >
> > Again it would need to be proved that your
> revenue
> > is income vs capital. If revenue you would be
> > taxed only on the winnigns over the year and
> not
> > on each individual payout.
>
> If they tax you on the income you can claim the
> losses too surely?

Yes of course. But you dont carry your losses over each year as they are ring fenced.

Englander - Wow. Where to start?

Tax has the potential to be the 'elephant in the room' insofar as punting and horse ownership is concerned. Before I say anything please accept that I AM NO TAX EXPERT but there are a number of murky areas and issues to consider :

1.) Horse ownership is ring fenced. This is a subject all on its own which I would rather not spend time on here. But my recent experience with SARS - where an over eager official with NIL understanding of the legislation tried to disqualify my legitimate horse ownership expenses - was an unsettling experience.

2.) Although punting gains and losses have traditionally not been declared (and taxed ) by casual punters SARS has shown a greater interest in taxing gambling winnings in recent years.

3.) Punting is regarded as a 'suspect trade' so claiming losses against winnings is a tricky issue. The exception to this rule is probably where you declare yourself to be a professional punter and disclose all your activities in much the same fashion as you would for a normal business. Casual punters are generally able to regard their winnings as being of a capital nature.

4.) The problem with '3' above is the small matter of being a 'casual punter'. SARS has sweeping powers and might interpret your regular daily betting activities as being habitual and, therefore, in the nature of professional. SARS might certainly associate horse ownership as being very much part of of a full-time and, therefore, professional participation in gambling with a view to generating profits.

Please don't quote me on any of this as my sources range from accountants to enthusiastic amateurs. Suffice to say - if you are able to create a steady stream of profit from your (regular) gambling activities you might be hard pressed to avoid incurring the attention of the taxman.

In which case you MIGHT be liable for tax at marginal rate ( 40% ) of your nett winnings.

hope this helps!

UK government are try to work out how to tax winners atm

All pretty much spot on Garrick.

Hope you won your case with SARS.

not so much the financial cost. The mental cost is what leads to suicides and the break up of marriages and ultimately families.

Costs of horse playing over the last 5 years - averaged to a monthly figure:

R355 Telkom (ISP) and telephone bets (only dial-up available here in the hills).
R125 Computer, printer and consumables.
R..90 DSTV/ Tellytrack portion
R..50 Horse racing books (not magazines or race cards)
R..25 Betting losses (-R1498/60 months=R24.96)

………………..
R645 per month
………………..


Have not included tax on winnings…prefer monies out and monies in only.

I think the tax man has too much leeway. Surely the law is there to form parameters in which people can happily scurry and leap and bound?
If anything is challenged by the tax man it has to be settled in court, and only if the spirit of the law has been trampled upon, shall retoactive punishment be dealt.

The draconian image of the tax man as experienced by Garrick allows the law to be used amongst others to include:
Settling scores in personal sense (malema)
Misuse by tax juniors trying to get a promotion

Leading to people keeping their hands in their pockets and not spending money which leads to a poorer SARS and society!

The rules must be clear. The spirit of the law must prevail. And a fair tax must prevail.

Last but not least.
THE TAX MUST BE SPENT FOR THE EMBETTERMENT OF SOCIETY creating a just society ensuring out most vulnerable are cared for ......
Not to feather the nests of thick fat gutted corrupt dictators while the poor starve and the country disintegrates

Thanks Garrick (and Richie and all). I was more interested from an outsider viewpoint as obviously being English I am governed by their rules and as we don't even have the 6% tax now, nor have we for many years, it does seem as though SA is still operating in pre-historic times here. Some may say that is not unusual with anything connected to SA racing (such as the starting stalls lol) To be taxed 6% is bad enough, to then have the possibility of winnings also being taxed is terrifying! lol And I much disliked Bob's comment re the British government looking at taxing winnings :X Don't these people understand how hard it is to win at this game in the first place? Still, if they realise they can earn money from it then maybe they will stop bookies restricting some punters to 1p trebles!!