trainers performance

for me at the moment in gauteng you cant beet clinton binda and stevie mofatt for geting results versus the price pay for the horse.

performance of the trainer for me as a PUNTER is simply can the trainer bring the horse to the course in the same condition as the last time ,,

We have talked about ROI being the right economic measure for years....................It is why I rate Brian Cherry as one of the best to have trained here.............he got phenomenal results, from cheap buys,consistently ,over the years!

scotia Wrote:

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> I think that is a fair assumption Harry (tu)

I also agree (tu)

Brian Cherry was a master....(tu)

Flash...a great thread....
my opinion...and I may have once owned part of a horse unknowingly in a piece of boerewors I bought...

Owning a horse is not about ROI....unless you are a breeder...(maybe)

If your trainer is your friend and confidant...then you have a good deal....it's not about the income...it's about your enjoyment....
Firstly...a horse is a expensive hobby...it is like fishing....it is much cheaper to buy the cooked fish in the expensive restaurant...
Secondly...If you do not enjoy..then get out...
Thirdly....and most importantly...enjoyment is not measured in percentages....

Nice thread FH (tu)

LG, very much enjoyed and was interested in your write (@ Oscar ) up. Can I ask you, or anyone, would your expectation be then, over time, that we will have fields where a few trainers have 3 or 4 runners? Not leading to anything concerning them directly (as I know it is something I moan about a lot but I do feel strongly about it) but, are we saying SA racing of the future, countrywide, will more resemble fields like the ones, to an extent, they currently have in PE where the likes of Smith and Greeff regularly have more runners in a day than the number of races? If so, as a punter, I would have massive concerns for the future. Punter confidence and trust is already at a fairly low level and if SA racing is heading in that direction then imho it is an absolute must that better transparency goes hand-in-hand with it.

I agree with E....sometimes must be the exception....exactly why I dislike the non coupling in the exotics....

I agree Engels, however, I feel that the trainers very seldom know themselves what is going in their stables, hence, they donot like to comment. Notice how often smith and Greef are unavailable to comment before racing comments.

Just my thought

Englander, this is just my opinion. I am not always right, as much as I dont like admitting this fact. There is a definite gap nowadays, in terms of costs of yearlings. The real bargain buys are not easily found and what I have seen over the last few years is the fact that you basically have to buy more of or larger numbers of the value horses, to find one or two nice ones.

Your normal Trainer will find consistent competitiveness very difficult in todays times. That's the point which Len makes. I often read here of the joy expressed by people who race successfully in PE. Examples are Oscar and Hibs. Basically, its horses for courses. I just think that we are holding onto horses too long up here which again costs the Owner unnecessary money. But, how many Trainers will be left, if they cleared out systemstically? And this brings up another point, often made by Harry on this site - do Trainers still keep horses just to fill a box? Every string has the good ones and the not so goods. Where do we draw the line, though ?

This is why we are looking at KZN - we need to offer our Owners an all round solution - whether the horse is a sand horse, a Vaal straight type, or a basic handicapper - we need to find the right race for the horse. The good horses must have options in both Feature Seasons. I honestly think that we, as a yard, based on the needs of our current Owners, will not survive if we do not do this. Kimberley is a quick drive down the road from Vaal and must be an extension of that base. And we will buy our own Float, for this purpose.

Basically, thats our way forward. The bottom line will be longer hours, harder work and very intense efforts in the logistical and/or admin side of things. And this is why I have the overall opinion that a number of Trainers will find the road ahead difficult. As I said, I could be wrong. But as I write, costs of Sales in terms of keeping a horse are increasing and stakes are consistently falling behind. And ultimately, we need to get our horses to the race course, to race.

Nothing is more frustrating than a horse which starts coughing or has respiratory disease, virus etc. A trainer is just powerless in these times. But equally frustrating are the times when your horse is jumping out of its skin and ready to run his/her best race and there is no race available. Part of our thinking in regard to these two scenarios resulted in us looking at the overall picture, the norms and at how we jump out of the "norm" and get a bit more, etc. For example, todays card at Vaal refers:-

1)There are 93 x 3 year old horses carded to run. These 93 horses have had 362 runs before today.
2)In 6 months time, they will be 4 year olds.
3)Add in todays run, they would have had 455 runs.
4)That results in 4,9 runs per horse.
5)Two trainers run their horses very often, way way more than the norm. These two Trainers have 8 horses that have had 114 runs plus todays 8 runs equals 122 runs. Take these figures out of the equation and the new figures are 333 runs by 85 horses which equals 3.9 runs per horse.

We believe that an average of 7 runs should be our goal at this time of year, or the season and that is what forms a big part of our thinking. We have noted the excellence of Sham racing. They have the Kimberley alternative for their Owners. They get results and their Owners are happy !

We are never too old to learn in Racing. Sometimes we do get it wrong. And we may do that, in this regard. But, we are going to give it a full bash.

Thanks for the detailed response Louis. I have never claimed to have any real understanding of racing issues from a trainer perspective etc and all this helps make it a little clearer. Directly linked to my question, I think that you are saying trainers will perhaps have more runners in different centres rather than having more runners in any particular race (if I'm wrong with that perception, apologies! lol) I have to say, I have always been impressed with your apparent deep passion for racing and I have little doubt you only have the good of the game at heart. You are not the most stupid either! Though as you say, probably not always right I hope all your plans and hard work reap the rewards.

One thing I have never fully understood though is the business of having a horse ready to run but no suitable race being available. Is this because there are simply not enough races over a particular distance at a particular level in each region? My limited brain can't compute how sometimes the fields are so small and yet trainer's say there are insufficient races for their horses. And is this only relevant to certain horses perhaps, the better ones? I know the Vaal generally has big fields but this in not necessarily true elsewhere. Cape Town, for example, my perception is that the fields are often disappoiningly small, apart from the maiden sprints but, this is sometimes also true of other centres.

Englander

I think we talking the same language here. It has a lot to do with my roots.

I was born and raised in PE and from my youth, I learned that we dont run livery yards and that horses are bred to race, not stand in the stable. You still see it today in PE - they run their horses ! PE is tough racing and not for the feint hearted. Far too many top horsepeople have come out of that centre for it ever to be overlooked.Anyone who just survives PE Racing is streets better than the average in the rest of the Country, imho.

I also formed a very close association and friendship with the late great Buddy Maroun. At the time of Buddy's death, he was looking at a host of Training opportunities overseas, as he believed that the bottle neck was coming due to a combo of merit rating and programming, that the population will purposely be grown, to ensure full fields and maximum turnovers, whilst courses were sold and mediocrity would be protected and that this would create more bottom end opportunities and less middle and up opportunities to race regularly. He was not wrong.

Cape Town, which has enormous spend at all sales, is not filling fields. Neither is Kimberley, which has protection in the form of guaranteed runners. This is part of the whole and thats why I looked at average runs of 3 year olds in Gauteng specifically, as an example. I know that it was much higher 6 or 7 years ago. At present, KZN fields have not been full either. What is confusing is that this is their off season and that this is when us normal yards should be grabbing opportunities, whilst the big boys focus elsewhere. The Gauteng Winter, for instance is what many of the Vaal boys focus on and plan for, as that is when the weaker fields are catered for.

I understand that this may not be the best option for Punters, but I think that the time is near for Trainers to form partnerships, thereby having bigger strings. As I said, I could be wrong.

The big spanner in the works remains Equine Herpes Virus which is fast mutating and multiplying and remains on the desk of NHRA! awaiting action. At present it remains uncontrolled and runs riot. TWO YEARS AGO this was put on their table....

So, the Operators, instead of leaning on NHRA for action in terms of mandatory innoculations, instead, have simply now upped the reserve runners to THREE per race...