The Open bet - help required

Jeremy Marshall Wrote:

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> Bookmakers would continue to receive 8% on
> anything above the last 12 months average turnover
> and 4% monthly on the existing average turnover in
> year one. In year two the average turnover would
> be reduced by 1/10th and that 1/10th added to the
> amount that bookmakers were receiving 8% on. In
> this way after 10 years bookmakers would
> eventually receive 8% on the full amount in return
> for giving up the open bet.

i think u being too lenient and too generous..to wait 10 years for it to go to 8%...if you give up the open bet...7..5 %..straight out..from the next day...just marshalls alone would add 10%....to the gross pools...because..i have it on good authority...u dont take back your tote bets at the moment

I have it on very good authority that holding all tote bets ( cash and credit)

Buys yachts , kids tuition abroad , jet set life style

Or maybe im wrongly informed

So Jeremy

Over the last year what do the figures tell you? If you played all your tote head on how much would you be ahead?


That figure is how much racing is the poorer x others

Jeremy Marshall Wrote:

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> At a rough estimate, 30% credit and 70% cash.


What we must not forget is that this is a punters choice in placing his bets with Bookies [ open bet ] or using the tote...

Well said, Easy! Reminds me of the book about Wall Street brokers, "Where are the Customers' Yachts?"

What I find hard to swallow is that bookmakers, acting as agents, cannot agree terms with their principal, and use this as justification to commit fraud, depriving the local racing industry of much-needed income.

Edge Wrote:

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> Well said, Easy! Reminds me of the book about
> Wall Street brokers, "Where are the Customers'
> Yachts?"
>
> What I find hard to swallow is that bookmakers,
> acting as agents, cannot agree terms with their
> principal, and use this as justification to commit
> fraud, depriving the local racing industry of
> much-needed income.

Seriously? Fraud? Once again, P sitting o with over 100 million last year, what much needed income?

Jack

P are not innocent by a long stretch...but we cannot mix the 2
if horse racing was being started today in a country
1: would you have a tote
2: would you allow bookmakers
3: would you have both

Edge Wrote:

---

> Well said, Easy! Reminds me of the book about
> Wall Street brokers, "Where are the Customers'
> Yachts?"
>
> What I find hard to swallow is that bookmakers,
> acting as agents, cannot agree terms with their
> principal, and use this as justification to commit
> fraud, depriving the local racing industry of
> much-needed income.

seriously...how can phumelela and even GC..justify their current % to operaters...its no wonder the totes r dump holes...no owner can afford investing in their places.as they are receiving the same commission for the last 12 years...whilst the principal rules like a dictator...expenses has far outweighed...the pools growth

Phumelela 's failings cannot be used as a justification for the open bet

Or are you all saying that if conditions and customer service were better you would only use the tote?

According to Jeremy 30% could never bet on the tote
So it has to be more than a decent sofa and a ice cold beer...

easy Wrote:

---

> Phumelela 's failings cannot be used as a
> justification for the open bet
>
> Or are you all saying that if conditions and
> customer service were better you would only use
> the tote?
>
> According to Jeremy 30% could never bet on the
> tote
> So it has to be more than a decent sofa and a ice
> cold beer...


y easy....totes also give credit

If you disagree with the word 'fraud', then insert your own politically correct word, but taking a 'tote' bet without putting it through the tote is something other than above board.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

Anyone have an estimate of how much income lost due to the all the rain around the country, expected to continue for the rest of the week.

I have saved a fair amount of money, with no local racing, as I rarely bet overseas.

May the rains continue, to emphasize where the money required to run racing comes from....THE PUNTER, who works for a living, then bets on horses, hoping to get lucky.

All those jocks, with no income for a week, maybe more, owners paying vet, trainer and whatever fees, racing tracks waterlogged/damaged, many horses not been able to train, grooms and other staff still to be paid.......this must be one heck of a nightmare.

Mother Nature levelling the playing fields perhaps, against certain players in this game! who want it all, and to continue taking, without giving in return.

KARMA catching up.

I know some aggressive players who play the open bet to scoop pools in trifectas and quartets, none of that money would ever go on the tote. Anyone who plays with any purpose would only play P6 and jackpots etc on the tote. Its a fallacy to say that all open bet money would go to the tote.

I can see why some people think that the open bet should not be allowed. However, I have read the transcript of the appeal court ruling on the open bet. Whatever Goosen says, once the case was put before them, and they don't make rulings lightly, they were faced with the open bet having existed for many decades completely unopposed. Concepts like opening Odds, Starting Price and Tote Odds had been used forever and a day. I can't remember the details exactly now, but you would have to have a really big mouth to say if you were on the panel you WOULD have banned the open bet, it really isn't that black and white. It's the world of precedents, patents and how you protect an idea.

Once the ruling was made, the open bet exists, and in a competitive world whether you do something or not becomes how you deal with competitors. If your competing restaurant offers bread on the table, you decide whether to respond. If your competition opens later or on weekends, you weigh up the costs of resisting.

It is the punters who play the open bet, the ship has long since sailed that the bookmakers have decided. Bookmakers would collective bet against each other as to whether the sun will rise tomorrow so you offer your customer everything that you can.

I think my last word on this because I can offer nothing new is: while the operators were non profit and for racing, I would have banned the open bet, but now that there are people who own the racing business, I think the open bet is fair to the punter. Racing pays dividends from profit to shareholders so they need no special concessions and they should stand or fall on their product and service.