Racing it's a rush

where on the RIR site are tips shown?

rob faux wrote:

snel wrote: I have to agree with most of the comments above. Being a "newbie" myself, I was told to go to "It's a Rush website" and I will have a whole new outlook... How shocked was I at what I found... most points have already been highlighted, so I am not going to repeat, but I want to punt and gamble and find interest in the game as I win (or just miss out), but THAT is what gives you excitement... THAT is what makes me come back for more! Not the weak posts and stories that they are currently running with... Give me something that will give me a better chance of winning!!!!!

These guys need to find something totally different that will improve this campaign... if they continue on this path, it will just be another white elephant which ultimately cost millions...

P.S. I understand it's new, but even the SAracing App is ridiculous. I followed this last week when they gave tips for Cape Town.... PA cost over R4000 and they did not even hit it! And it's not as if the payouts were anything exceptional! Some races they tipped up to 8 horses in a 12 runner race! Really? Come on guys, you can do better than this!

Thank you snel.............the most significant post on this subject yet!
So much energy has been spent trying to second guess what would make racing ,and more importantly ,betting on racing,attractive to a newbie.
We have now heard it from a newbie ......................(except of course that so many people in the industry believe that their job makes them experts and that outsiders are clueless,so we are likely to hear that the newbie is WRONG about what he/she wants)

(It appears that snel's feelings confirm that it more likely for new punters to go racing than it is for occasional racegoers to become punters)

The question is how do you create new punters? Either they become punters through association(family, friends etc) or you have to get them to the racecourse. There is no way in hell that anybody trailing through social media that just happens upon a racing site will go down to the local tote to place a bet. Firstly they will walk out when confronted by all the strange happenings there. Now the flipside is to get them to track - This is where you need proper marketing - If you have the correct people in place it is easy to teach the newbie to punt - I had a group of 160 people who had not punted before - No problem - I helped them fill in forms and explained the basics - they could place bets themselves after a little assistance. NONE asked how they could win the P6 or dream bets. Most wanted simple win and place bets. Will they play outside of the event? Now I'm not sure BUT if they were given a booklet or a website that had all the info on it as to where and how to punt then I'm sure they would occasionally play. What I am certain of is that many will return to the track if invited(many have already done so at a subsequent event). Will any become sick punters? I don't believe so as I do think we seek out our vices without having them forced on us.
If as as punter your first introduction to racing is through the internet you will not enjoy it as much as being at the track- The internet and social media are complimentary to Racing and the basics of racing is "put money on a horse you think will win" - That simple competitive instinct is all you need to capitalize on. Complicating things with exotics, carryovers etc is not the best bait to hook this fish. Once they have learnt the basic win/place bet then the rest will follow. Watching races online, formgrids, forums etc are all really there for the serious "hobbyist". Casual Jack just wants to put a few rand on a horse while he has a drink and talks to his friends at the course. He can become a punter but that is reliant only on his personality, means and thegood or bad experience he has at the course.
You cannot MAKE punters - if that were the case I would have been able to convert at least one of my ex-girlfriends into that beast. However almost every girlfriend or friend that I took racing on-course had at least one bet on the day but sadly none ever got the bug.
I am a realist and I think that you could throw all the money in the world at marketing Racing but you will still never get back to the high level of punters we had in the 60's,70's and 80's. The best you can do is create a base that attend big meetings and may play the big meetings like the July and Met and a few will enjoy it and become punters. I am only commenting on Gauteng as I have no idea on KZN and the Cape.

www.itsarush.co.za/content/track-0

clearly states, courtesy of SA Racing App.

on another page on the site it also lists sites that can be visited for racing info, tips etc. SA Racing App features because they have agreed to be a content feed on the RIR site.

hopefully with education, the general public will be more interested in understanding and following racing.

are you sure your ex-girlfriend is not an ex because of the 'converting' ? haha
being involved in racing punting is all-consuming...you have to follow and do work if you want to be successful.

Don wrote: are you sure your ex-girlfriend is not an ex because of the 'converting' ? haha
being involved in racing punting is all-consuming...you have to follow and do work if you want to be successful.

The point I'm making here is that over a period of 25 years and a list of many many ex-girlfriends I was not able to create one punter. I feel that if I was religious I would have at least converted a few to that region but sometimes the Devil's work is hard work and birthing punters is just that - hard. Punting is an affliction that is very very selective when finding a host and no amount of exposure to it can make a punter. Using this rational it is better to sell a "punting experience(not the PC lifestyle experience favored by marketers). Getting people to the track so that they can watch a band play without also wrestling a few bets from them is stupid. The attraction for the crowd may not always be Racing But once they hit the tracks then Betting on races must be the priority.

Don wrote: Dear Snel, why do you rely on tips? Can you not work it out for yourself?

There is endeavour to teach a low level of handicapping to the general public (which RIR is trying to adopt and deliver) -so that the public, and new punters alike, understand the mind game and can work out perms which include loss mitigation, for themselves. They are trying to raise the level of awareness and understanding about racing.

Without taking away from the tipsters, racing is not a gamble - it is an informed decision and opinion, as you know. If people are more confident in what they are spending their money on, they will spend. Also, the RIR website is meant as a one-stop hub for beginners, social visitors, and general interested parties - they are not in the business of tipping. If you are a hard-core punter or only interested in punting, there are other ports such as FormGrids, ARO, etc etc to help feed your knowledge. Follow tipsters at your own expense as they too may or may not have a good understanding of handicapping and also their own opinion of how they read a horse's ability.

Please learn to understand handicapping, for your own good - otherwise you will just be continuously saying 'the tips are useless'.

Wow,Don you confirmed my fears instantly ......................You clearly responded defensively before you digested what snel said!

Your opening line is in the form of a scolding and is code for "are you an idiot"!!!
Later you use the term ............"as you well know"...................really??? he says he is a newbie!!
(You and I could debate your opinion that racing "is not a gamble" - until the MR system includes the regulation of "runs on merit" then ability ratings are indeed a gamble!)
Don,newbies need to feel they will be taught,not reminded that they don't yet know what they are doing

Rob, I didn't mean to patronise the newbie - if I offended, my sincere apologies. Just to state that if his interest is so strong and clear towards punting, he won't get satisfaction for his need from RIR. Having said that now, I feel sorry for newbies trying to learn handicapping - where does one go for this? you need a friend who can explain, and explain again...this is part of the problem or challenges that racing face. It is not easy for the the beginner to feel welcome - and is very much the responsibility of 'racing' to rectify (perhaps we should start a workshop? haha) racing = who? operators? RA?, SAF still doesn't have the right level of working together between parties]

We are trying on social platforms to explain at least the drag effect over distance...to whoever wants to follow and learn....

Also, agree with your sentiment on the JC ratings and merit system. It is a system nonetheless and predictable, so that helps, a bit. Aand don't even get me started on unraced horses and long layoffs as a blind spot - minefield for any punter.

Mr H, agreed - it is a religion it seems! hard to convert...learning curve, and a minefield of information and variables! Does this take us back then to relying on festival race days to draw the biggest interest, and then to use those to exert maximum exposure and education? Racing hasn't done that yet. Have you EVER been to a July, Met or Summer Cup where there has been a drive on 'know the game, love the game'? (in addition to the experience, fashion, fun?) The education has to have happened by the time the race day arrives... and then some.
But how. And because Budget?

Don wrote: Rob, I didn't mean to patronise the newbie - if I offended, my sincere apologies. Just to state that if his interest is so strong and clear towards punting, he won't get satisfaction for his need from RIR. Having said that now, I feel sorry for newbies trying to learn handicapping - where does one go for this? you need a friend who can explain, and explain again...this is part of the problem or challenges that racing face. It is not easy for the the beginner to feel welcome - and is very much the responsibility of 'racing' to rectify (perhaps we should start a workshop? haha) racing = who? operators? RA?, SAF still doesn't have the right level of working together between parties]

We are trying on social platforms to explain at least the drag effect over distance...to whoever wants to follow and learn....

Also, agree with your sentiment on the JC ratings and merit system. It is a system nonetheless and predictable, so that helps, a bit. Aand don't even get me started on unraced horses and long layoffs as a blind spot - minefield for any punter.

Mr H, agreed - it is a religion it seems! hard to convert...learning curve, and a minefield of information and variables! Does this take us back then to relying on festival race days to draw the biggest interest, and then to use those to exert maximum exposure and education? Racing hasn't done that yet. Have you EVER been to a July, Met or Summer Cup where there has been a drive on 'know the game, love the game'? (in addition to the experience, fashion, fun?) The education has to have happened by the time the race day arrives... and then some.
But how. And because Budget?

Absolutely NOT - Basically courses are EMPTY unless there is a massive day - Now I would think the best approach would be to fill the rooms with groups of people with similar interests on these dead days. I would approach clubs - Sporting, motor, wine clubs - hell even Book clubs - Promise them a agreat deal on lunch and then when they are there have a team/person in place that can help them with the basics of racing. Obviously you NAME a race after the club as that costs nothing and makes it meaningful for the members. You can even offer a discount table price for charities that want to raise money . What about bachelor parties etc. The smaller groups 10-20 can be accommodated in a box(I know that if there is not a big day the boxes are used by the operators staff or not used at all). There are way too many attractions on a big day that draw away from Racing. I recall going to the met and only having three bets as there was just too much to see and the betting lines were just too long. The main thing is that when they are there they strike a bet!!

and i'm not referring to the 'how to bet' education which the betting buddies at the courses deliver. I am specifically saying 'handicapping = understand the variables presented in the race and learn how to read a horse in a race'. If you understand this, you will find how to bet easy, otherwise you are just blindly guessing, with or without JC merit ratings - which are just a form indication in any case. Or, alternatively, you must be happy with what the tipsters advise, as you would expect them to have understood and made said deductions on your behalf.
Rob, do you agree?

Don wrote: and i'm not referring to the 'how to bet' education which the betting buddies at the courses deliver. I am specifically saying 'handicapping = understand the variables presented in the race and learn how to read a horse in a race'. If you understand this, you will find how to bet easy, otherwise you are just blindly guessing, with or without JC merit ratings - which are just a form indication in any case. Or, alternatively, you must be happy with what the tipsters advise, as you would expect them to have understood and made said deductions on your behalf.
Rob, do you agree?

Yes I agree..................but my approach is to whet the appetite!.............once you do that people develop a thirst for more knowledge to improve their success,and all you have to do is make the info available.
I don't think you can educate people who aren't interested..... but you cant hold back people once the bug bites ...............and I am convinced that punting horses is like a bug bite!

Operators need to make the connection between entertainment (the fanfare on the day and race day experience) and wagering entertainment (the product experience)

The first is almost certainly there as i have met very few people that have not enjoyed their day at the races but on the second count the only interest from operators is turnover where bigger is better and nurturing an interest through baby steps is considered a waste of time and effort as it will not deliver immediate gains.

Racing contests and fantasy style offerings are much better suited to the task than any traditional product but they still lack a few important elements that could make all the difference.

People love competition, it is in our DNA and is present throughout every step of of life. We compete for customers, sales, jobs, promotions, for a girl fiend, husband, wife, in sport, games and lets not forget that racing has its roots in this need to compete. What people like even more than merely competing is to be able to be competitive in whatever they choose to take part in. More winners and competitive participants should be the objective of any new racing product development.

Reward and recognition is something most of us seek and these elements need to be present in new product offerings as well. Put these together with racing as the medium and make it entertaining and affordable and people will play, its really that simple.

Once a product is in place that marketing staff or a sales force can actually believe in, formulate clear objectives, set proper targets that are measurable and measured and reward people appropriately for achieving and exceeding.

The recipe is known but the will and the belief is lacking as there is no measuring system or reward mechanism in place that directly incentivise customer acquisition.

Is it any wonder that we question our local operators motives as far as racing is concerned?

LSU wrote: Operators need to make the connection between entertainment (the fanfare on the day and race day experience) and wagering entertainment (the product experience)

The first is almost certainly there as i have met very few people that have not enjoyed their day at the races but on the second count the only interest from operators is turnover where bigger is better and nurturing an interest through baby steps is considered a waste of time and effort as it will not deliver immediate gains.

Racing contests and fantasy style offerings are much better suited to the task than any traditional product but they still lack a few important elements that could make all the difference.

People love competition, it is in our DNA and is present throughout every step of of life. We compete for customers, sales, jobs, promotions, for a girl fiend, husband, wife, in sport, games and lets not forget that racing has its roots in this need to compete. What people like even more than merely competing is to be able to be competitive in whatever they choose to take part in. More winners and competitive participants should be the objective of any new racing product development.

Reward and recognition is something most of us seek and these elements need to be present in new product offerings as well. Put these together with racing as the medium and make it entertaining and affordable and people will play, its really that simple.

Once a product is in place that marketing staff or a sales force can actually believe in, formulate clear objectives, set proper targets that are measurable and measured and reward people appropriately for achieving and exceeding.

The recipe is known but the will and the belief is lacking as there is no measuring system or reward mechanism in place that directly incentivise customer acquisition.

Is it any wonder that we question our local operators motives as far as racing is concerned?

LSU help me out - Why do we need a new product? We are trying to sell a bet here that has been going on since the first caveman challenged his mate to throw a stone further than him and the rest of the tribe bet bananas on the outcome. If we cannot sell that simple bet then why look for other more complicated bets that require much more involvement. I understand that there are serious fans of fantasy leagues in other sports but everything starts with the simple win bet. We have already got a sort of fantasy League in place in the Charity Turf Challenge and that has not brought in huge amounts of new players from what I can see.
Call it the gateway bet for exotics if you must, but without getting that first simple bet started the rest have no chance or I'd be spending all my money on the lotto as if it's a lifestyle win I want then that's the medium to use. We need new punters - long-term or day-trippers it matters not but the net must be widened and the selling point is seeing your horse crossing the line first.