Cape trainers hit back

Sharky
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Re: Cape trainers hit back

6 years 5 months ago

louisg wrote: Craig
Some food for thought...

1)We have had this argument before, a few years ago. So, KZN Trainers have gone along with your lines of thinking and where are we now, a few years later, since we decided to protect the lower rated horses of our loyal Owners ? How many runners are we giving the Operators in our C division and higher races ? Basically, the lower end horses are what 95 percent of our Racing has no option but to cater for, in KZN. Another Region that protects local runners, is Kimberley. Where has that taken them and their quality, over the last 6 years?

2)Gauteng horses raid KZN at will, now, with huge success. They are raiding us, like they raided Bloem, years ago...in spite of our "loyalty" rules. Last week we lost a maiden race at time of Acceptances, as it only had 7 runners declared. 5 of the 7 acceptors were from Gauteng. We , "the protected" could only muster 2 runners...!?

3)Since mediocrity has been protected through "loyalty" down here, we now have very few top class horses in the Province.
WHY ?
4)Very few KZN horses will make the big ones this Season. And very few of those , again, will be competitive in those races in which they make the fields.
WHY ?
5)Because when u reward mediocrity, that is what u will have. THATS WHY !

When one considers the History of KZN Racing and the many many great horses that were Trained and Raced here over the years, what we have now is far removed from those glory days.

We still have the Theatre of Champions. We still have the Greatest Race in SA. We still have, by far, the two most beautiful Training centers in the Country. So, we cannot blame the Operator. We can only blame ourselves. We cannot afford to keep bad horses, at the expense of the Owners. We need to work much harder, in our quest to find better quality horses and to regain the respect that was once part and parcel of Racing down here.
Those are the facts. We need to face them and we need to put big efforts into priority number 1, which is finding quality stock.

This has to be comment of the decade. Great post and so true. There is a lot to be said but I’ll standby for now.

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Over the Air
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Re: Cape trainers hit back

6 years 5 months ago

#754284

What a posting by Louisg. Bravo! That took guts to pen and I am sure that you will not please everyone with your thoughts. One thing that you do not comment on is the quality of the KZN breeders in comparison to their Cape counterparts. You mention mediocrity regarding trainers, the same can be said of KZN breeders over the years. Too many poor mares have resulted in a generation of mediocre horses over the last 20 years. This is fact regardless of Summerhill being champion breeder for a large portion of this time I highlight.

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Craig Eudey
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Re: Cape trainers hit back

6 years 5 months ago

#754285

Hi Louis, as you say we don't have the greatest horse's here but how is letting more lower rated horse's from outside going to help? That is just bringing more bad horse's in? We have enough of them already. We want and need their better horse's here not the ones we already have an over supply of. I cannot see the reason for that.
A problem we have is that according to what MDK called the slip factor and on what the jockeys feel and see here, the JHB and Cape horse's are lower rated than the horses here of the same ability. Write more later. Just have to shoot off.

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louisg
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Re: Cape trainers hit back

6 years 5 months ago

#754291

Correct Craig. When I took Hashtag Strat back to raid Gauteng, after racing her here for a year, she was suddenly giving 6 or 7 kg's to the same fillies that she used to race against regularly up there, to short heads and at similar weights, a point or two in it. During the year of her absence from Gauteng, her opposition had similar success rates up there, to what she had down here...but the divide was obvious, to the point that one of the GautengTrainers remarked on this to me.

And that reinforces my point. We have so many weak horses down here, that it is only natural that those which stand out ,above the rest/ the norm will be more severely penalised.

So, when you come back on here later, let's ignore all of these lower rated horses and focus on horses rated 90 and above. How many of these do we have in KZN and why do we have so few of them ?

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Craig Eudey
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Re: Cape trainers hit back

6 years 5 months ago

#754294

Back. Ok we have enough bad horse's. We do need better horse's and that was the reason that GC/Natal trainers welcomed anyone bringing horse's of 75mr( if I remember correctly) to KZN. We want to improve our racing and not have it flooded with the lower class horse from outside to lower it even more and local horse's don't get a run. The reason we don't have top horse's. Hard to put my finger on. Buying at the bottom of the market in the majority of cases. How many Natal Trainer's can go spend R500k and above at a sale on a horse? Not many. Jhb has the money and Cape has the overseas money and studs that support their local trainers very well. Good luck to them training down there but is it helping the local racing?

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Garrick
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Re: Cape trainers hit back

6 years 5 months ago

#754295

I have commented on this issue for years so it is refreshing to see a trainer making the same observations!

And, guys, they are OBSERVATIONS insofar as I make them.

Let's start at the beginning : Money cannot buy you a good horse. Knowledge of breeding lines, conformation and a big wallet can undoubtedly improve your chances but it still cannot guarantee that you will end up with a good horse.

So absence of money does not guarantee failure. Many past champions will attest to that.

KZN does not lack for decent facilities so we can eliminate that excuse. I'm not sure I feel the same way about their grass tracks but that is merely my opinion.

So that leaves us with the elephant in the room. Perhaps, on average, the region now has the poorest trainers in the country for a major centre?

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Over the Air
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Re: Cape trainers hit back

6 years 5 months ago - 6 years 5 months ago

#754296

Louis' question about catering for the "better" horse intrigued me so I have done a bit of research. In the previous 3 months in KZN ( Dec 2018 - Feb 2019 ), the following handicaps MR 90 and above at all KZN tracks over any distance comprised of the following races:

12 December 2018 - Scottsville MR92 1000m - 11 runners
14 December 2018 - Greyville Poly 1600m - 7 runners
5 January 2019 - Scottsville Inside 1600m - 7 runners of which 2 were from "raiding satellite yards"
25 January 2019 - Greyville Poly 1400m - replaced by appies mr 60 and mr 78 races
3 February 2019 - Greyville Poly 2000m - replaced by MR64
24 February 2019 - Greyville Poly 1400m - replaced by FM 62
27 February 2019 - Scottsville inside 1000m - 5 runners

Disclaimer : - I assume that the replaced races due to lack of entries and have listed the replacement race as that that differs from the official program.

Either way this is very damning and supports Louis 100%. As an owner if I had a "better" horse I would feel obliged to fish where the fish are and move to a province that gives me opportunities surely?

Last edit: 6 years 5 months ago by Over the Air.

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louisg
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Re: Cape trainers hit back

6 years 5 months ago

#754297

Craig, acceptances closed today at 11h00 for next Wednesday's meeting at Greyville. We have lost the Graduation Plate, due to paucity of acceptances and have, in its place, the splitting of the MR66, 1600m race.
It is good that those horses get another race. It is not good, that we keep on cancelling Graduation Plate races.

To me, there is ONLY ONE issue that our Trainers Association should be addressing and that is upping the quality of our local stock.

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Craig Eudey
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Re: Cape trainers hit back

6 years 5 months ago

#754303

Louis, I agree that we need to do that and I am sure PE would love it too but how. I promise you I am all ears and will take any good ideas to the top. That is why I drove up to see you guys. If anyone on ABC has an idea please let me know. Garrick as you say money does not mean it will ensure a good horse but it certainly helps. Be great to buy the best conformation, looks, bloodline etc. There are exceptions but they are exceptions. From my side Thandolwami cost R80k and won R1.1 million. Flyfirstclass was only R130k. As to the idea that Natal Trainer's are the worst I cannot contest that enough. You cannot make bad horse's run. Justin Snaith said to me directly( not second hand) that he would not get out of bed to train the horses the vast majority of Natal Trainer's try to. Just give them a top horse and see how well they do with it. Take my ex boss for example.l will use him as I know him well. He trained Brer Rabbitt, Scarlet Lady, Extra Cover, Thatch Attack,Mauritzfontein to name a few. Then he went through a dry period. Did he forget how to train? Absolutely not. As good as ever but didnt have the stock. Then he gets Monks Hood and did he put a foot wrong with him? Not on your life. He is a top trainer and showed it again with the right horse and blew the top Jhb horse's away and would probably have done the same to the Cape horse's if MH had not been sold overseas. Do you think Pat Lunn, Tony Rivalland, Paul Gatsby etc have forgotten how to train. Just give them a top horse and watch. Unfashionable trainers like Pat Antelme, Gail Thompson won the July when they were given the opportunity of a top horse.

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Craig Eudey
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Re: Cape trainers hit back

6 years 5 months ago

#754304

Sorry Carrick I forgot to mention. You are absolutely spot on about our facilities. Having been to Cape Town and Jhb and had horse's in both places we in Natal can never blame our facilities. They are different class.

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