Tote building a card house which will tumble?

Any feedback on the new bet? has anyone taken one or won?

scotia Wrote:

---

> Another huge problem with this Tote bet is each
> leg of the bet will be subject to the 6% taxation
> deduction, which amounts cumulatively to a 6%
> chunk of the customer’s return being subtracted
> as each leg goes through, whereas when taken with
> a bookmaker the same bet will only be subject to a
> single 6% tax deduction, at the final leg.
>
>
> Clearly, the bookmaker option offers much greater
> value to the client as the wager is not subject
> to, what is effectively with the Tote, a
> compounded deduction.

This is a very misleading analysis.

Taking the first 2 races at Clairwood as an example the bookies prices as per bookies.co.za were:

Race 1: 5/11, 5/2, 14/1, 20/1 , 20/1, 25/1, 70/1, 70/1, 100/1, 100/1, 100/1
Race 2: 28/10, 33/10, 75/20, 9/2, 13/2, 18/1, 20/1, 20/1, 33/1, 33/1, 66/1, 100/1

The first represents a rounded book of 123% and the second a rounded book of 124%.
If one takes the opening prices, at which time most multiples are struck, it is even worse.
Using Race 2, which was not complicated by scratchings, the opening pirces were:

5/1, 9/2, 22/10, 5/1, 4/1, 10/1, 10/1, 12/1, 25/1, 50/1, 50/1, 50/1

That represents a rounded book of 138%!

At the end of it all they also deduct 6% tax.

Talk about a compounded deduction!

mr tipster anytime you want to take your all to come please take it with me ..the winner of the first race was trading at 9 to 10 freely for 3 days it paid 1.50 on the tote ,the second race winner was trading at 5 and 6 to 1 freely and it paid 3.60 on the tote for a win...YOU CANNOT COMPARE PAL AS 90 PERCENT OF THE TIME THE BOOKIES WILL HAV E OFFERED BETTER ODDS...THIS NEW ALL TO COME BET IS THE BIGGEST CRAP EVER INTRODUCED AND ONLY MUG BETTERS WILL TAKE THEM...

i took a place double today famous words and at evens and thunder lad at .75 to 10 it worked out to a shade under 3 to 1...on the great tote famous words paid 1.5 a place and wait for it thunder lad paid 1.00 A PLACE ...ITS A NO BRAINER and the sooner the tote authorities realise its a muck bet the better

Pirates, nobody has given a comparism of winnings yet. I was just pointing out the misleading analysis of compounded tax.
p.s. if I was you I'd be complaining about books of that rounding, UK books appear to average considerably less.

Good morning gents and thanks for the examples, was just trying to establish who was playing and what return they were getting.


Ignoring percentages and tax etc and looking at the scenario simplistically

A tote is only a machine

1) money goes into the kitty/pool
2) a slice is taken by the operator
3) the number of winning tickets are divided by the kitty
4) payout is established

So by using the tote mechanism the more successful you are by allowing your money to be reduced by a slice on each movement and creating more winning tickets to the next leg, you are in fact bringing your payout closer to R1.00 the more accurate you are with your selections.

good punting!

Just for the record Tipster the above copy and paste was an email received, but what scotia did say on the subject was

scotia

Re: New ATC Tote bet press release!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
September 29, 2010 06:50AM

Interesting, so races 1, 4 and 8 we have 2/1 fancied favs

So if I ask the bookie for a R500 treble I will get 13000/500 less tax (without a stretch) = R12,720

If I use the tote and considering we will now have more money going into the win pool on the fancied horses? its possible that the first 2/1 shot will pay less on the tote, lets say 15/10 and if the winnings are carried over again could well see the next horse pay 12/10 and the last evens? So my bet would be 5000/500 = R5,500 for the same bet on the tote

Its ok just brainstorming, and interested to see how it all pans out and the above is only an example of money being carried over into a tote pool which would have an effect on the final price imo.

All the best

scotia Wrote:

---

> Good morning gents and thanks for the examples,
> was just trying to establish who was playing and
> what return they were getting.
>
>
> Ignoring percentages and tax etc and looking at
> the scenario simplistically
>
> A tote is only a machine
>
> 1) money goes into the kitty/pool
> 2) a slice is taken by the operator
> 3) the number of winning tickets are divided by
> the kitty
> 4) payout is established
>
> So by using the tote mechanism the more successful
> you are by allowing your money to be reduced by a
> slice on each movement and creating more winning
> tickets to the next leg, you are in fact bringing
> your payout closer to R1.00 the more accurate you
> are with your selections.
>
> good punting!

But at the same time the odds for the other horses become more attractive so money comes for them which brings some balancing.

Thanks Tipster that could also be a scenario, just trying to find an example of an "actual" winning bet? comparison......

Let me put it this way, if I was in charge of marketing for P and GC

I would have as a headline on tab online first thing this morning

Lucky punters wins R20,000 for just R100 in our Benoni branch on Saturday, by picking x/x/x/x

Come join the fun and be a winner with our new ATC bet...................blah blah

With Pirates here,if you have an all to come with the Tote be prepaired to be dissapointed ocassionally...

Serious guys has anyone had a winning bet?
Please post

txs