John Sweet not too sweet on the all to come bet

You can`t lay sa races in running on betfair i believe now,it`s also frowned upon by the tax man..

The tote is owned by PG. It's their portfolio to make the tote a monopoly if they could. The tote is trying to be all things to all people, but it cannot. The strength of the tote lies in locked-in-pools that no odds maker can compete with.

They should play to their strengths and grow their business by being the best at what they are good at, instead of fixating on others who contribute strongly to the fabric of the game. And stakes are just one part of what makes racing, not the be all.

It's ok if you punt R100 doubles, trebles and win less than R10,000 to punt with the bookies.
However, once your treble or atc leg 3 or 4 takes the winning bet past R100,000, the chances of winning is 0!

Allow me to explain :
Bookmakers clerks lays the trebles and atc, informing the bookmaker of all bets > R50,000.
The bookmaker agrees and the bet is processed.

When we open the race (let's say race 6) and your 3 leg is running, the bookmaker sees the R100,000 /R25,000 going forward to the next leg of your treble........R600,000/ R125,000......

So what is the bookmaker to do.........
Cannot stand the bet........bank account does not allow that
Gambling board will demand bigger guarantees.........

Cannot claim the 4/1..............claims are R25000.........
Cannot get it back as 1 bet..........other bookmaker has the same limitations

Cannot take it back for more than R10,000 at a time ......lest another bookie claims the 4/1

Call the starter.............R10,000.........problem solved.......

Hence all holds well as long as you win less than R10,000?

If the Take-outs quoted are correct,then someone is stealing.......for a long time First Sovereign (Dbn-Race 3) was reflecting 80c for a place,which is the nett figure,without any other contribution from the pool,so when every other horse has place bets riding,that payout is impossible?

Maybe it's the rounding down factor, Rob?
As far as I know, a payout of 89c would be rounded down to 80c. Could be wrong, but I think that's what they do.

Lets say we have a three horse race

horse A has R1000 wins
horse B has R100 wins
horse C has R100 wins

So we have R1200 in kitty or pool
Take out 25% so we have R900 to share for the winning tickets

Horse A wins you get 90% of your stake or R90 back for your R100
Horse B or C wins you get R900 for your R100 or R800 profit

Makes "cents" to me.....................lol

Dave,if the first and only bet in the pool is R1000 on horse A......payout at that point is R800(R1000 less 20% takeout).As soon as other bets come in,spread on the balance of the field,the R800 must go up,due to redistribution!
Play with it .....you'll work it out eventually..lol
I think that Sabre's explanation is the likely one,but also highlights the "theft" called rounding down.

Sorry forgot to mention the guy that put the grand bet on horse A cancelled just before the off and B and C dead heated
So the R200 in the pool less the 25% = R150 was split between the 2 winners so they got R75 each for their R100

Scotia's correct but for me Its the rounding-down to the lower 10c which is the burglary. Why cant they just round to the nearest 10c?
Furthermore, I stand corrected, many years ago, the tote kept the 4% when betting tax was reduced from 10% to the current 6%. Again, burglary.

Guys,

the debate is focussed on the ATC bet.
we need to compare apples with apples.
there are pro's and cons for both the tote and bookies WHEN TAKING HUGE BETS (WINNING OF R200K)

the tote ATC PRO's
you get money back as only a max of R15K can go forward to the next race
you get money back if your final selection loses and the preceding amount was more than R15K..
setting the exmple on full tax recovery and payment (each leg of the ATC)..

the tote ATC Con's
CASH only
As all have explained..double tax..small pools...less than bookies

the bookies ATC PRO's
better payout if all your selections win.
fixed odds betting on ATC
Over many events and days
on account

the bookies ATC Con's
can play only small ATC for less than R25K else the starter gets involved...
(Derek Flynn gave me wise advice long ago...back only when the 2nd last horse goes in...)..too late for the call
(Derek Flynn gave me better advice...back only on the tote when the 2nd last horse goes in..)
SARS will relook the way bookies account for the ATC bets and the tax structure will be on every leg..soon....else we have double standards...
SARS will force the bookmakers to be linked to a central server, to be cut when the race jumps...no more winning bets after the race to fix the tax..

In the end..most punters will stay and play on the tote ....bookies cannot survive...in the end they all die poor...?????
dont believe me....look back in the RSA bookie history....most died poor...perhaps they still enter a bet after the event has closed...