cry me a river

how many times have we asked for it?ask the bloody trainers about their first timers.are you telling me that its hard to do so.this Puller one just pissed me off as did the Eugene Cox horse the other day.if the trainers are refusing they should be named and shamed.as for self-serving,self righteous presenters dont be so far inside yourself.tellytrack should fire people.

Cliftonking, you have a valid point about trainers being open and forthrite about there first time runners, but picture this scenario and then reconsider. A owner buys a yearling at the sales, purchase price R250 000.00 not cheap but certainly not the most expensive. He then pays training fees for the next 7 months, another + - R30 000.00 added to the purchase price. Hopefully the horse has had no injuries or problems pushing his costs up even higher.
Now the big day arrives and the owner tells the trainer " Listen here, I want to have a good bet on my horse today to try and recuperate some of my costs. The stake money is shite so I expect you to keep it quiet so I can have the first bite of MY PURCHASE that I bought and maintained". Now the trainer is obligated to shut his mouth as this owner is one of his clients and if he blabs away the chances are good the horse will be relocated to another stable. I think it's fair that the owner has the first race to try and get back some of his costs. Once the horse has run then he becomes public property as he now has exposed form. Not all owners are punters are the same and some like to to talk about there horses chances and others don't. It takes all kinds to make up the racing world and the owners and trainers who chose not to talk about there first time runners have that right. I'm certainly not saying a trainer should lie on Telly Track and give false information but if my trainer blabbed away about my horse and caused me to take restricted odds I would have the s...ts. If you are a astute punter I'm sure you will be able to follow the money trail and see when a horse has been supported.

i think owners, as with jocks, should be barred from punting on horses they own/ride. The minute the horse runs in a set race, it becomes public ownership AS IT BECOMES THE MARKETED PRODUCT- Kevcee do you advertise and sell a product based on false or withheld information?? how do you expect to build a punter base - which funds the stake money etc by doing that? this mindset HAS TO CHANGE AS IT HAS DONE ENOUGH DAMAGE! no wonder the public think racing is crooked - because IT IS! because of people like you! I bet you sleep soundly knowing that you've gained in your greed but at the same time helping to destroy the sport?

furthermore, you suggest this kind of behaviour is justified as STAKE MONEY IS LOW...? therefore it gives an owner the right to have information above the punter? INSIDER TRADING!! does it not make more sense to have a good system, which helps and encourages more punters - so the pool can be bigger, so the stake money can be better etc etc?

please try to think beyond your own selfish pocket - look around you! SAF racing is dying - why and what possibly needs to change in order to save it or is it too late?

Nicely put together Don, fully agree with you

If my horse now becomes 'the marketed product', should I then not be paid appearance money - in stead I have to pay an addtional (admittedly small) nomination fee - money which (as I understand it) gets paid over to the RA - of which I am not a member.

On this forum alone I must have seen this same argument going back and forth at least a dozen time. The owners say there would be no racing without their money to buy horses and punters' say their would be no racing if it wasn't for their involvement contributing towards the stakes. For me this is a bit like the chicken and the egg senario which can be debated forever.

I am a punter and do have a small share in a few horses. Most owners do not back enough to claim a horse, barring first timers with the R10.000 claim. Other than Monday racing all race meeting are priced up at least a day in advance, giving the owner plenty of time to get his bet on before raceday. On raceday I believe all information regarding horses well being and ability should be public knowledge so the punter can decide how to structure their bets, with all the relevent knowledge available. If the owner has not taken a bet at this stage and the price is taken by the public the day after the prices opened well then it is tough luck.

I am a firm believer in transparency and will always disclose my horses well being on this site, for example we have Gilmore Girl running in Race 3 on Summer Cup day. She has moved to Gary Alexander and all the owners are based in Jo'burg and we bought the horses to watch the run. Anyway Gary said she is working well but is not fully fit, it is just a run to freshen her up for the rest of the season. Gary told us he doubts if she will win but would be dissapointed if she did not fill a minor place and will come on from the run. I will be having a small R250 each way bet on her just incase.

You guys are trying to reinvent racing.

Where on the face of this earth does any punter expect the owner, trainer or rider or an animal entered to race to be forthright with the public?

That's not how it works ANYWHERE.

The point of the exercise is for punters to figure it out for themselves. If they cannot do this, they should only bet races with totally exposed form.

Dear Don
The owner barred from punting on his own horse !!! Wow thats mind boggling not to mention down right stupid. Does this mean the owner is not allowed to include his horse in any exotic bets, PA, P6, Jpot, trifectas etc. It's amazing how many people want first call on a horse they have never spent a cent on and never had to risk the chance that there investment might fail. Kind of reminds me of a parasite. It should be the owners perogative if he wants to spread the information on his horse. If you refer to my response to Cliftonking's post, I indicated this with first time runners in mind not with horses with exposed form. Furthermore I do sleep well because I gladly mention my horses to all who wish to listen but I also respect the decisions of owners who prefer to remain tight lipped about there FIRST TIME runners.

Kevcee, i meant first time runners and runners back from a long layoff included, the public and racing's customers are not stupid - they know horses are animals not unlike athletes and there is always a margin of hit-and-miss even if the horse is at its fittest.

Barry, it works in the East - have you been to HK or Japan for racing? we have a lot to learn from their systems and also the way they build a brand and a loyal following. You cannot build a following based on superior treatment of some and surpression and abuse of others with very obvious self-beneficiary loops - already the reputation is tarnished so there is a brand handicap. If racing is to compete in the modern world it will have to accept this and adapt the way they provide the product.

Every country is now getting on the on-line betting bandwagon - there is only so much technology you can offer as a service provider - the ones with the edge will be the ones with fair and consistent information to punters. Anything less is nothing better than playing the Lotto and not the mindgame its supposed to be.

www.sydneyautumncarnival2010.com.au/file...release%20130410.pdf

Tuesday, April 13th 2010 For immediate release
MEDIA RELEASE
33rd ASIAN RACING CONFERENCE

The second day of the 33rd Asian Racing Conference continued in Sydney on Tuesday with a presentation from Soong Tze Ming, Senior Vice-President Racing, Singapore Turf Club on Strategies to compete in a Changing Business Environment.
The theme of the Singapore strategy paper to compete set the Tuesday morning sessions with following speakers commenting on the prospects of co-mingling, the need for a profitable model for racing, engaging consumers in a clutter society and The Great Debate of What is the future of racing/wagering relationship.
All speakers had an essential theme toward the future prosperity of the racing industry.

Singapore’s Soong commented on the challenge of their customers having a much wider array of entertainment and gaming options to spend their money on, the increased sophistication competition from illegal bookmakers and the online betting operators not based in Singapore that are taking bets on Singapore racing that is broadcast live in Australia, but not paying a product fee.
To meet these challenges the Singapore Turf Club is improving the quality of its track, training facilities, racing population and prize money and incentives for owners. It is refurbishing its grandstand facilities at Kranji as well as working on variable take-out adjustments.
Co-mingling will soon be underway with Australia’s Tabcorp with additional broadcasting of international races in Singapore another facet of the internationalisation theme of the Conference.

Tabcorp’s CEO Elmer Funke Kupper briefed the conference on the progress of co-mingling with, once again, a rapid theme of development with internationalisation.
Funke Kupper addressed the Asian Racing Conference in Dubai in 2006 on the upcoming implementation of co-mingling on what were ideas at that time.
Now Tabcorp’s Sky Media division is broadcasting 17/7 in 2010 with co-mingled pools and racing from Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and by 2011 that will increase to 20/7 with Singapore, UK/Ireland, USA/Canada co-mingling, and significant potential in the future with Hong Kong and France.
A third channel, Sky Racing World, commences broadcasting in Australia scheduling the best four to five meetings from Australia, New Zealand and Asia, along with the best meetings from around the world in the UK, South Africa and Europe. US expansion is planned.
Sky will launch a global thoroughbred racing channel improving the quality of vision to support further co-mingling growth, becoming the CNN of racing.
The growth strategy allows the Tote to compete with larger co-mingled pools with economies of scale improving the returns to racing.
The proven benefits of co-mingled pools have come from the first co-mingled pools between Tabcorp’s STAB pools and New Zealand.
In each case the strongest growth has been with the smallest pool with STAB growth into the host New Zealand pool growing 12% and New Zealand growth into the STAB growing 20%.

Funke Kupper identified key issues for the industry as free loaders; double dipping on racefields legislation; scheduling of races for broadcasting; tax exemptions and the consistency of integrity and regulatory processes between racing countries.
He said that co-mingling had serious potential with Australian clubs earning $30 million in the past three years, with returns to grow. Since 2004 445 million was wagered in Australia on imported product, and this has grown to $394 million in 2008 and $376 million in 2009 to-date.
Citi Global Markets Director Jenny Owen said that racing must come up with increased wagering to survive, while commenting that the industry was suited to follow the rapid development of broadband for online wagering and suggesting that a new model was necessary to survive.

Owen commented that it was difficult for the financial industry to see where the racing and wagering industry was speaking with ‘one voice.’
“Racing needs a profitable model to survive otherwise it will not attract capital,” said Owen.
Governments would not engage with wagering and gambling unless there were arguments such as employment, tax revenues and infrastructure to fund growth she suggested.
The growth of broadband use was taken up by Koichi Yamamoto, Senior Researcher Director, Communication Lab Dentsu Institute, Dentsu Inc.
Yamamoto reported on the hyper clutter that now surrounds everyone and the New ‘New’ way of engaging today’s consumer. The way individuals socialise with technology is a challenge for the industry to expand on.
Yamamoto said that research showed that ages 10 to 20 already spend more time on their mobile devices than on a personal computer, and that all customers are constantly exposed to a steam of new information.

This has led to consumers becoming increasingly indifferent about wanting to know new trends and products.
“They are getting numb,” said Yamamoto.
Yamamoto suggests that a New ‘New’ way is required to engage today’s consumer. He used the example that consumers are not using mega stars and films to find out what is new, but are using social networks and multi-media to see what interests them.
For racing this creates advantages of having a real time live presence between race days using blogs and driving continuous consumer conversations on social media. He commented on the risk of using social media and that it was ‘uncontrollable’.

“But the risk of not doing anything outweighs the risks. Just dive in and do social media,” he advised.
Yamamoto discussed the ability for racing to create a presence using the New ‘New’ way by talking about horse racing excitement with consumer involvement and using consumers to influence other consumers, which in turn drives the media as a force.
He suggested that this was more approachable and more fun for customers.
ENDS


Tuesday, April13th 2010 For immediate release
MEDIA RELEASE
33rd ASIAN RACING CONFERENCE
THE GREAT DEBATE

The Great Debate, chaired by Andrew Harding, CEO Australian Racing Board, at the 33rd Asian Racing Conference in Sydney on Tuesday, was a lively exchange of views between racing administrators Peter V’landys, CEO Racing NSW; Nic Coward, CEO British Horseracing Authority; Peter Savill, former Chairman British Horseracing Board and corporate bookmakers Con Kafataris, Managing Director Centrebet; Alan Eskander, Managing Director Betstar and Edward Wray, Chairman Betfair.
Each speaker had five minutes to present their case followed by Harding moderating a question and answer session that included questions from the floor of the conference.
Coward said that with the UK general election underway he predicted that within 12 months the laws will have changed in the UK to ban off-shore wagering, and that within five years there would be major shifts in all government thinking.
“We will have a model that we can base our businesses on,” said Coward.
“We want a proper functioning commercial partnership for the industry with people who want to have a partnership with us.
“Racing will continue to have great content and government will get this and they will create environments that industry can flourish in.
“People want quality journalism which has to be paid for and major media content must be based on interactivity with customers,” he said.

Coward said that information flows must be ‘tailored’ for racegoers to overcome the barrier to understand what betting is about and in a ‘non-challenge’ way.
V’landys said that the NSW racing industry, currently in a court challenge with Betfair and corporate bookmakers over the validity of NSW racefields legislation, wanted to set its price for its product like any other commercial business.
“We do not want to be partners in the wagering business of exchanges and corporate, we just want to set the price for our industry,” he said.
V’landys said that the discussion between the parties was about ‘price’.

He said that other sports were carefully watching the present NSW court challenge and he suggested that the recent French law where all sports were taxed at 2% of turnover would set a precedent, which French delegates later agreed with suggesting that their new legislation might become European law.
V’landys questioned why the NSW racing industry is being taken to court to set its price for the use of racefields by wagering operators, and he used the comparison with the giant mineral resource company BHP Billiton who was able to set its iron ore prices for customers to either buy or buy elsewhere.
“If you do not want to use our product then move elsewhere,” he said.

“The industry is going to continue to lose revenue as customers have too much choice and we must identify other areas to obtain revenue streams,” said Kafataris.
Kafataris said that he considered that there should be different prices under racefields legislation for different wagering channels. He emphasised that corporate bookmakers want to contribute to the industry to use the product, but at a fair level of levy.

Savill emphasised the need for all governments to legislate to enforce intellectual capital and that the UK model of funding has led the stakes for grade one racecourses to be $25,000 while Victoria has stakes of $70,000, with three times the turnover, while in 1961 they both had the same stakes of $2,000.
The Levy contribution has dropped £110 million in 2004 to £91 million in 2009 after the collapse of the European court case of the UK industry owning its intellectual property he said.

Eskander said that all in the wagering area were pushing for the same outcome.
“We all want a vibrant racing industry,” said Eskander.
Eskander said that racing was too expensive to bet on and that the punter of the future would come to understand that and compare costs of wagering returns with competing sports.

Wray, who co-founded the technology company Betfair, picked up a consistent theme of the conference, commenting on the instant transfer of information.
“Punters live in a world of real time information,” he said.
“The experience of watching live racing is much better than watching on TV but technology is moving at such a pace with the use of I Phones that people will use them.
“We do more business in the five hours of a 20/20 cricket match than we do in a five day test match,” he added.
Wray said that Betfair had taken a share in a social networking site in the USA and he commented that the exchange’s experience was that the first bet by new customers was on sport, not racing.

He said that during recent negotiations over where Betfair would continue to base itself in Australia they had not wanted to move off-shore, and that they were pleased to continue to be based in Tasmania.
NSW is waiting on the outcome of the present court challenge to determine its way forward over it pricing for racefields and the judge is expected to hand down his decision within weeks.
ENDS

note: courtesy Thor.News

one can see how Phum are gearing themselves....the next conference 2011 is in Turkey. anyone going?