TOTE PRICES CHANGE AFTER THE RACE!!!!:X

  • RA
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Re: Re: TOTE PRICES CHANGE AFTER THE RACE!!!!:X

14 years 8 months ago
#110187
Here is the media release from 03 Feb 2010 regarding the audit:



GAMING Laboratories International (GLI) Africa has completed an independent audit of the TAB computerised betting system and found that no bets are placed after an event is closed.

TAB recently completed a thorough investigation into the differences between dividends at the start of a race and the final official payouts. Phumelela and Gold Circle were totally satisfied that no bets were being placed into pools after the close of a race, but in order to further reassure TAB customers GLI was commissioned to carry out an audit of the wagering system.

GLI is a global company with its headquarters in the USA. It has long been the leading independent gaming industry testing and certification laboratory and is utilised by more than 450 gaming regulators in jurisdictions all over the world.

GLI is also approved by South African regulatory authorities to certify systems for use within the South African betting and gaming market.



The above audit, coupled with the following 2 issues, are all I can offer without going back to Phumelela to be told the same thing regarding the change of odds after the off:

1) At least 10 times in the past week, I have seen the reverse happen, ie a horse pays more at the end of the race than when they jumped. If the tote was being manipulated, then these late bets were placed on the wrong horse?

2) If Phumelela were involved in manipulating the Tote by placing late bets on the winner, surely they would not put down so much money on the horse that the odds jump like this as this would raise suspicion?



With Tote betting, large bets dictate the pace, are there any solutions other than closing betting 2 mins before the jump? I did ask why this could not be done, and it was clear that a substantial amount of betting would be lost as the majority of bets are placed within 2 mins to the off.

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  • rob faux
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Re: Re: TOTE PRICES CHANGE AFTER THE RACE!!!!:X

14 years 8 months ago
#110189
Interesting logic RA......but how about the following.
1)why would a punter place a bet affecting a pool to the extent his return is a fraction of fixed-price opportunities,and the horse has to run a place to get his/her place money back AT BEST ?

If all is in order from a bets point of view,it does not alter the fact that it is a crap product!!!!!!!

Can we have a declaration that the take-out has not been increased for co-mingled pools....that has still not been answered....the leftovers are not adequate to provide a profit..............would explain the confidentiality agreements.

Maybe more fees or commisions payable to more intermederies?

I don't care how satisfied you are,unless the punters feel the same,the tote and your owners stakes are farked!

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  • Unlucky_Dube
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Re: Re: TOTE PRICES CHANGE AFTER THE RACE!!!!:X

14 years 8 months ago
#110190
In any business, if your customers are unhappy and are starting to go elsewhere, it cannot be a good thing. Fact, many people are having a bad experience with tote and are moving on.

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  • rob faux
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Re: Re: TOTE PRICES CHANGE AFTER THE RACE!!!!:X

14 years 8 months ago
#110192
Absolutely UB.Hard to understand why such a basic concept eludes them!
A crap product doesn't sell better because of an explanation.It has to be fixed or it fails.

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  • umlilo
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Re: Re: TOTE PRICES CHANGE AFTER THE RACE!!!!:X

14 years 8 months ago
#110195
@unlucky dube:

I stopped playing on the tote for over 6 months now, together with another 2 of my punter colleagues.

The one now visits the casino once a week and is always cursing himself; 'I should've stopped playing horses years ago and saved myself a fortune! Now, I go to the casino once a week, have a decent meal, play my Video Poker for 2 hours....... and come home always with my stake, if not more!'

There you have it!

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  • BIGNIC
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Re: Re: TOTE PRICES CHANGE AFTER THE RACE!!!!:X

14 years 8 months ago
#110205
I have a lot of sympathy for all a couple of weeks ago I was running in PE Pa 8 times with a scratced horse and the favorite with the bookies "favorite" won just to find out that the tote favorite was a horse at 16/1 enough said-To boycott the tote is to boycott horseracing in SA where will stake money come from?Cant we get a positive suggestion to the NHRA (Anyway you are wasting your time to write to them they think we are all mushrooms) I find a easy solution is to close the tote 1 minute before the race is ran or ran the last update a minute before the time and what you then see is what you get I mean what is the difference if we treat that one minute before the start as the OFF TIME.How many bookies doesnt take bets after the off ?I often get on after the off with BW

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  • Frodo
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Re: Re: TOTE PRICES CHANGE AFTER THE RACE!!!!:X

14 years 8 months ago
#110206
BIGNIC Wrote:
> I have a lot of sympathy for all a couple of weeks
> ago I was running in PE Pa 8 times with a scratced
> horse and the favorite with the bookies "favorite"
> won just to find out that the tote favorite was a
> horse at 16/1 enough said-To boycott the tote is
> to boycott horseracing in SA where will stake
> money come from?Cant we get a positive suggestion
> to the NHRA (Anyway you are wasting your time to
> write to them they think we are all mushrooms) I
> find a easy solution is to close the tote 1 minute
> before the race is ran or ran the last update a
> minute before the time and what you then see is
> what you get I mean what is the difference if we
> treat that one minute before the start as the OFF
> TIME.How many bookies doesnt take bets after the
> off ?I often get on after the off with BW


Well Mr RA maintains that Phum/Gold Circle will not agree to closing betting earlier - too much revenue will be lost - well ask yourself this: how much revenue are they going to lose by continuing with this ostrich approach?

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  • Andrewest
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Re: Re: TOTE PRICES CHANGE AFTER THE RACE!!!!:X

14 years 8 months ago
#110207
If the RA is so sure about their findings..
why then not display the DATABASE log tape online for the punters to see what bets are taken...when the last bet is struck..when the betting close...

will take a programmer 1 day to knock up a program to read the log tape and display it in raw format on the saftote website..

the same applies to the lotto...

count the balls left in the bowl after the draw on TV after the last ball has been drawn....and we will see 49 balls left....

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  • CnC 306
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Re: Re: TOTE PRICES CHANGE AFTER THE RACE!!!!:X

14 years 8 months ago
#110208
I am actually put that into practice on Wednesday night Andre and see if you are right in saying the lotto is a scam

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  • BIGNIC
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Re: Re: TOTE PRICES CHANGE AFTER THE RACE!!!!:X

14 years 8 months ago
#110210
If they want to be transparent why not have a single line with with final payouts during the race which will enable all to see what was the real closing odds ,I put it to all concerned I dot think racing is transparent at all-Take for example Under Starters Orders you get all these wonderfull trainers that come onto the show and tell us mushrooms what to back and what not and I will back up what I say one specific trainer on the show said no chance will need the run the selfsame trainer on track told all on his table his horse will shit in which it did why put of those punters thats trying to win a small pa etc

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  • Andrewest
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Re: Re: TOTE PRICES CHANGE AFTER THE RACE!!!!:X

14 years 8 months ago
#110212
Trainer cannot tell the public...
why....some history...."some wanker stole the price"....

I took a double..over 2 days (2 different race meetings).
got 18/10 on the 2nd horse (first timer)...but it opened at 8/10 once my 1st horse won...
a mere R50K..

owners take exception when the trainers tell the public..
but its worse when you steal the price....lol....

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  • Andrewest
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Re: Re: TOTE PRICES CHANGE AFTER THE RACE!!!!:X

14 years 8 months ago
#110213
CnC
UK we have teatime 49's, lotto all most every day....and very few catch the lotto...rollovers..
In RSA they catch the lotto almost every week...

You think the 60 million in RSA is smarter than the 60 million in the UK...???

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