Is the July ante post betting a scam?

Hibs,for many years gambling debts were not legally enforcable hence the term' Debt of Honour'.
That has changed(inSA anyway) and now the transactions are contracts,and subject to the usual laws of contract,one of which is both parties have to mutually understand the terms of the contract,otherwise known as" ad idem"
I think that Mervyn may well have a case,technically, but the only compensation would be a refund(ie no contract) so its obviously not worth fighting for.
If a case like this,but with a lot more at stake,ended up in litigation,I guess the punter would need to show he was not experienced enough to be expected to know that special rules applied to his transaction ....so Pirates Tommy ,myself or the like would not stand much chance.
The problem is Hibs,its not a scam,but to the unsuspecting it sure feels like one,and racing just doesn't need the stigma.


How difficult would it be to attach a warning to any ante-post pricing stating:
"Please note that ante-poste rules apply to this market -make sure you understand the special conditions that apply" ....problem solved,no more disputes.

If one was paid out on the winning legs of an accumulated bet that would in effect be the same as getting a refund on the scratched ante-post runner.

What about all the other punters who had ante-post bets on Dancewiththedevil? Once a precedent is set it should apply to everyone.

It might a case where the average or once a year punter does not understand the "ante post" market.

However would guess where where a punter takes exotics "quads" etc, he would have a fair knowledge of the game and "much" speculation re: Igugu with markets with and without the horse not being a runner at first acceptance stage, the same applied to punters looking for a bargain with DWTD.

I took a gamble with Igugu with the possibility it would not run.

If Igugu was a non runner and DWTD was...........what price DWTD 5/2? when 10/1? was on offer.

Guess not everybody reads the forum?

Plus would also say that "ante post" markets are well established in the UK and dont have the same profile here.

My bookie, whenever I or anyone else takes an anti-post bet, informs us what happens if the horse is scratched or not accepted in the final field. Any seasoned punter would know that if you horse does not make the race you do your money. It is a gamble but surely that is what we do, we are all gamblers. A few years back I backed Yard Arm before the Derby at 40/1 he won the Derby by 9 lengths and shortened to 3/1. That is what the market is there for. If DWTD won the 2000 meter race at Turfies by 5 lenghts she would be trading with Igugu.

I do see that it is hard winning 3 legs of the quad and the forth withdrawn ante post making the bet a loosing bet is frustrating but as Dave said if someone if playing a quad they should have a fair enough knowledge of the game to understand what "anti-post rules apply" means.

Mervyn, I feel if you did go to the Bookies Control Comittee, they would find against you as you played a quad and therefore an experienced enough punter to know what the anti-post rules are. However, I don't know you bookie" but if they were decent and wanted to keep you as a punter maybe pay out half the R900 to split the loss.

I also took a small bet on DWTD a few days before her last run expecting that should she do well, the betting would shorten. Simply put, I don't give a continental about ante post betting ~ I placed a bet on a horse to win a race and if it is scratched / withdrawn etc, should be refunded. These rules are typical of a market that will do anything to make a buck. Subsequent to DWTD being withdrawn, I have not placed a bookie bet and have no intention of doing so for a while. Their loss. I would have spent 20 to 30 times my DWTD bet by now.

I would be interested to know the time lapse between the bookies / powers that be finding out that she would be withdrawn and the market being told. Was betting suspended immediately? I doubt it!

Thank you for the comments and information
I appreciate the feedback that I have received and will advise all of you if Dave van der Vyver replies to me or advises me further .
Regards

I had a treble or A.T.C. with a bookie about 3 years ago........ he said 1 leg was void, forget the reason...he did not pay me out.
I have since NEVER had a bet with him again, yet I walk past his cubicle 3 or 4 times a week.

you tell me who is the bigger looser in the long run ? ( i had been betting with him for at least 15 years, & often phoned up for a bet. ) I think he has saved me a lot of money in the long term ! how to loose customers !!!... just screw them once !

Hi Mervyn

SECTION C
BETTING RULES FOR HORSE

Ante post bets
15. (1) With the exception of starting price win bets, should any selection not run for any
reason other than the abandonment of the race itself –
(a) an ante post bet shall be lost and the customer shall forfeit his or her stake; and
(b) ante post bets struck on other horses in the race shall not be subject to any
adjustment in betting odds.
(2) Where a race is abandoned, all ante post selections that are still live or
undetermined, shall become void.
(3) Should a selected horse in any leg of a multiple event bet be scratched, withdrawn or
not accepted prior to the bet becoming void or being won, the bet shall be regarded as
lost, notwithstanding the fact that the race is abandoned.

The important point here is 15 (b) If you backed, for example, Run For It at 9/1 in the ante post betting leading to the July and Igugu got scratched your bet would stand at 9/1. There would have been no deduction. The ante post betting is there to offer the punter better prices on runners, however there is the risk of not getting a run and there is also no deductions on horses that get a run. If you had taken the Quad and DWTD at starting price you would have got paid on the treble. How many horses were claimed that did not get a run? Bravura open 40/1 in the July ante post, one good run and the horse ended up second favourite. There are also horses in the ante post betting that have to qualify to get into the race? Some of them find support and end up not running?

You will find a full copy of the rules at www.bookies.co.za under the tab "downloads"

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any other question relating to this matter or any other matter regarding the rules and regulations.

Rob Faux your suggestion "Please note that ante-poste rules apply to this market -make sure you understand the special conditions that apply" has been noted, thank you

Regards

Davevdv

mervyn , tough luck , i normally take yankees going in to the july antepost . in ur case u would have been paid for the first 3 winners had u taken
a yankee. safer method . ante post betting is always risk situation. ur odds maybe be better but injuries to horses ,draws ,loss of form cant be predicted .remember dancers daugters injury