Scotia meets Ken Rutherford re: improved communications

Good morning all, I had the pleasure of meeting with Ken Rutherford (Media Executive) and ex New Zealand cricket captain to try and improve communications between the operators and the punters.


Ken Rutherford


Scotia: As far as Tellytrack is concerned, is it being considered to remove Ngong, Harness racing from Sweden and inferior racing centre’s and replace with better quality venues and is it possible to have a second racing channel with a direct track feed or consider a cross over button from channel 232?

K.R: It is not our intention to remove Ngong. In terms of the time slot on a Sunday that Ngong fills, the turnover is better than a harness or jumps meeting at the same time. It is also felt that there is an obligation as a fellow African country to support Ngong. Swedish harness racing did a deal some time ago with their South African counterparts hence the requirement to show Swedish harness racing. It should also be noted that the V75 bet type in Sweden is a significant pari-mutuel product with huge pools. A second channel is being sought and it is hoped that the new Digital Terrestrial Television environment will bring about that opportunity. It is accepted that Tellytrack in its current structure does not satisfy the whole customer basis. A second channel will allow one channel to be aimed directly at a thorough domestic broadcast from the local meeting(s) to satisfy the purist who wants to see the horses in the parade ring, canter-past, behind the barriers and aftermath. Whilst a second channel would be wall-to-wall racing to satisfy the customer who is wagering-driven. It is hoped that this approach will cover all bases in terms of what the punter wants.

S: The tote is losing market share due to a poor image and erratic payouts, could it be considered to let a respected service provider such as Interbet manage the on-line tote bets using their user friendly site? In addition could we stop punters cancelling large bets to manipulate the tote and close co-mingling before the off and have the co-mingling established in our data base before the “off”.

K.R: No partnership with Interbet is being considered at present. I understand that the manipulation of the tote by last minute cancellations was previously an issue but that now this is not the case. As is the case world-wide, there is much turnover in the last 120 seconds prior to a race. We are bound by international co-mingling rules in terms of when pools should be closed. Technologies will improve to ensure that the pools are established as close to the ''off'' as possible.

S: The various soccer bets and tax free sports bets, what damage is that doing to our local horseracing revenue?

KR: There are other factors damaging horse racing turnover far greater than soccer betting. The types of customers' described are two distinct entities - there is little spill-over from horse racing betting to soccer betting and vice versa. Soccer (and sports) betting has allowed traditional operators world-wide to diversify and grab a different customer.

S: How much damage in Rands or a percentage in turnover does the “open” bet do to the tote turnover? Why did you lose the court case?

KR: It is estimated at R500 Mill per annum in turnover terms. I cannot comment on the court case - I wasn't here and I have heard numerous different interpretations of what happened so best to say nothing.

S: What changes would you like to make to improve the current state of affairs with our racing industry? and do you see the future as being a challenge? or all doom and gloom?

KR: Racing needs to re-invent itself to be more attractive to tomorrow's customer. Whatever has worked in the past, won't work in the future. When racing was the only game in town, nothing was a problem. Now there is so much competition for the entertainment dollar, that racing has to find a point of difference. For my 20 year old son, it is the internet and the various social networking opportunities that are available. Clearly racing needs to be in that space. It is a challenge - but an exciting one. It would be desirable to base much of the endeavour around the majesty of the horse. In Australia and NZ, the party has replaced the horse as the reason to go racing. Although there is much commercial advantage to be had by that approach, long term I wonder where that leaves racing? Somehow we need to the horse returned to the pedestal and emphasis the sport of racing rather than the business side of things.

S: We have a shortfall in racing as far as cash, is there plans to engage the government to ensure all stakeholders make a larger contribution to racing?

KR: I understand that Government is being engaged and is being made aware of the perilous position racing now holds as an industry in South Africa. I doubt whether we will see any ''quick fix" - rather it will be a concerted and (hopefully) united campaign by the industry as a whole to ensure the relevant issues are brought to the attention of Government. But these issues are reliant on the speed of attention that Government attaches to such issues. We see it as important - I doubt whether Government shares the need for urgency.

S: Do you regard the forum as the enemy or a constructive criticism from potential or existing tote players?

KR: We are all passionate racing enthusiasts and like to have our opinions heard. There is no problem with that - as long as there is a degree of fairness. It is important that the operators provide feedback to punters - in the past, tote operators possibly rested on their laurels. But a more customer centric approach is now necessary and we need to engage the customer in meaningful ways.

I thank Ken for his time and it is our intention to meet again in the near future and discuss some other pending racing issues.

Hope you are all keeping well wrapped up for the latest cold spell due to hit us over the next few days and one event that should keep us glued to the box is


who will win the clash

Sussex Stakes.

First race at Kimberley, the debate continues

Last week for the jockey championship.

Not sure how many see this picture on the site......................after viewing go back 15 feet



JFK must have got a scare in the morning

Have a good week and enjoy the Gold Cup

Good punting!

scotia

Scotia,let me start by applauding you for this initiative and In order to take a positive outlook we should be happy that the operator is willing to engage,and hope that improved communication will be beneficial in the long run.
However,in reading the above responses I cant help but think that Churchill may have commented "seldom have so many words been used,to say so little"
I am trying to find one new bit of information that is not a repeat of previous press releases,or any good news,for that matter
It will be interesting when we get to asking more specific questions like "are additional commisions or fees paid to any parties in respect of co-mingled pools,thereby increasing the take-out,and reducing the nett pools?"
"P" have always been good at the spin....its the specifics they have always avoided.
Lets wait and see and try to remain optimistic.

Well this is a good start Scotia..every man needs his chance so lets hope that Ken is strong enough to stick it out without selling out..he just may do it for us,,the punter!

Good luck Ken in your new challenges..dont give up mate!

rob faux Wrote:

---

> Scotia,let me start by applauding you for this
> initiative and In order to take a positive outlook
> we should be happy that the operator is willing to
> engage,and hope that improved communication will
> be beneficial in the long run.
> However,in reading the above responses I cant
> help but think that Churchill may have commented
> "seldom have so many words been used,to say so
> little"
> I am trying to find one new bit of information
> that is not a repeat of previous press releases,or
> any good news,for that matter
> It will be interesting when we get to asking more
> specific questions like "are additional commisions
> or fees paid to any parties in respect of
> co-mingled pools,thereby increasing the
> take-out,and reducing the nett pools?"
> "P" have always been good at the spin....its the
> specifics they have always avoided.
> Lets wait and see and try to remain optimistic.

Whilst I applaud both Dave and Ken for trying to clear a few issues I cannot help but comment on :

S: The tote is losing market share due to a poor image and erratic payouts, could it be considered to let a respected service provider such as Interbet manage the on-line tote bets using their user friendly site? In addition could we stop punters cancelling large bets to manipulate the tote and close co-mingling before the off and have the co-mingling established in our data base before the “off”.

K.R: No partnership with Interbet is being considered at present. I understand that the manipulation of the tote by last minute cancellations was previously an issue but that now this is not the case. As is the case world-wide, there is much turnover in the last 120 seconds prior to a race. We are bound by international co-mingling rules in terms of when pools should be closed. Technologies will improve to ensure that the pools are established as close to the ''off'' as possible.

1 minute after the race , the dividends change ????????? And their will never be a partnership with Interbet, how are they going to share their loot ?

Cheers Scotia - I tried to search for threads or comments made by David Attenborough at the time of the first of many complaints about the Tote. I seem to recall a very similar line as the comments posted above re new technologies and the closing of pools. The question is why this "is not the case" ? What has suddenly changed since the days of DA? The ATC is hiding the big discrepancies in some of our opinion.

I am interested in the second channel comment. I have looked up the Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) and what I have found is that analogue should have been switched off and DTT should have been switched on by November 2011. The new deadline is December 2013 and the system that has been selected is DVB-T2. My question relates to whether the current equipment will be able to produce better clearer viewing rather than the second channel issue? At the moment Scottsville has a camera on the turn which is blurry around the edges, Greyville has a camera focused on the Drill Hall which broadcasts in a different colour. The same is probably true for the rest of the Horse racing country's camera equipment. I would hazard a guess that the equipment would need to be upgraded at a huge capital investment which racing, by some accounts, cannot afford. It follows then that the existing broadcast infrastructure would produce the same low quality picture regardless of the signal platform. HD racing was mentioned by the RA some time ago and there seems to have been little movement on this.

The next question relates to the second channel. DSTV 232 is a satellite channel. The options we currently have are Satellite and Terrestrial (DSTV vs MNET decoder Satellite dish vs TV antenna). There are not too many terrestrial options at the moment as far as I am aware. The question is how long do we wait for this option. Would it mean that we may need to purchase a TOP TV or normal MNET decoder to watch the second channel? Terrestrial by its very nature is the opposite of Satellite so where would this second channel fit in if not on the DSTV (satellite Bouquet)? :S

Good morning gents and txs for feedback, will follow up.

I feel I should also mention that meeting with Ken was his suggestion based on my earlier scotia posts.

Once again Scotia well done.but a long journey ahead to get racing on track.Lets hope it gets more positive.As we can all see many questions will be asked by the boys on this forum.

The Ngong answer makes my teeth itch. I accept the reasoning that if turnover is decent it deserves to stay, but the added rationale that we must support a fellow African country is distinctly lame. When did an entire continent become the responsibility of one country? Can you imagine if Polish or Slovakian racing was rammed down the throats of UK or French punters on the basis of, "ag shame, they are fellow European countries and their racing is battling?"

Is it really our problem?

I agree a very good initiative - from my side I would suggest that for the next meeting (if there is going to be one), the least that should be done is to ask forum members to submit their specific questions/concerns - and I think it would be ideal if some members (rob faux springs to mind) could be present at the meeting.

Yep there are comments I dont agree with..ie that the soccer bets have not taken away from racing...Of course they have of that I have no doubt..its very different feedback when you sit in a dirty tote in Jhb and see what happens vs sending out a research company to try interview people and tell you whats happening.

Many people have a set amount they willing to bet with and a few years ago that did not include soccer...it now does..personally I dont do pa's or pick 6 anymore..I much rather take the soccer 6 or an all to come soccer bet along with many many of my black brothers..we enjoy it, its spread over a longer period, theres MUCH less graft and if you really do your homework its a much better bet.

@scotia & KR:

'in the past, tote operators possibly rested on their laurels. But a more customer centric approach is now necessary and we need to engage the customer in meaningful ways.'

There are people within the industry who will not ever engage with someone like myself and I speak from experience. Yet, they were prepared to pay me thousands to get them and their buddies where they are now! Sucks!!!!!

They will listen to and engage with a 'decent' black, but not leftists who will ask awkward questions!

For the past many years, I have been making requestst to TellyTrack (a Maggie also), to include TellyTrack within M-Net's Easy-View subscription..... zilch!

Easy-View costs about R220 pa and has about 15 popular sites that appeal to the middle to lower income group..... and is affordable for them.


At least a dozen of my fellow punters from 10 years ago, have left the game; none of their children have taken to it.

How are you ever going to engage with customers when you don't f... ever respond to them?

Or, is this another different load of horse-shit.... talk, talk, talk... kak, kak.....kak that just dries out in the sun?

Worse than a stuck needle!

hi all.
I suppose its a start,would have been better if the clansmen were informed about this meeting,so more questions could have been raised.

I,however, am in favour of Ngong flat racing.More needs to be done to advertise this centre(like its done wid harness racing),considering some of our jockeys ride there.
Scotia has this midas touch,perhaps a trip up North should be scheduled.