2011/2012 Jockey and Trainer betting

Which jockey will be crowned champion jockey for 2012.?

The result is known according to number of wins in the 2012 season.

A Marcus 6/5
A Delpech 2/1
M Yeni 11/2
MJ Byleveld 20/1
F Coetzee 20/1
K Teetan 25/1

Which trainer will be crowned Champion trainer for the 2012 season?

The result is known according to which trainer earns the highest stakes in the 2012 season.

M De Kock 1/4
J Snaith 4/1
M Bass 16/1
G Kotzen 50/1
K Naidoo 66/1
J Ramsden 100/1

Hibs - Pardon my ignorance.

Why should the jockey's be measured in the number of wins and the trainers in stakes earned.

Thats they way the Champs in SA are decided East

hibernia Wrote:

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> Thats they way the Champs in SA are decided East

Thanks!

East this is a good question. Why should the jockey's be measured in the number of wins and the trainers in stakes earned.
I think the trainer with the most number of winners should be crowned champion trainer.

Musi 11/2?

This could be an interesting topic, as far as number of winners/percentages/group winners etc

Sure there have been ground rules and logic here and Internationally, maybe one of our experts could supply some inputs :S

So correct me if I am wrong but stallion/trainer/breeder etc based on money and jocks based on number of wins.
Horses based on votes...................

Tero Wrote:

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> East this is a good question. Why should the
> jockey's be measured in the number of wins and the
> trainers in stakes earned.
> I think the trainer with the most number of
> winners should be crowned champion trainer.

Tero - This is what I think as well.

A win is a win irrespective of value of stakes.
I am thinking in terms of the big stake payout such as July, Gold Cup etc, etc
A "Christmas" trainer having a major win in these races , could leapfrog trainers that have performed consistently.
Whatever the method of measurement is, it should be used as a basis for both trainer and jockey.

Seems strange that they use 2 different parameters to judge winners.

Disagree with you Tero.

The number of wins for a jockey really does sort the men from the boys, and even though Delpech got the money (by R4 mill) few would deny that Marcus won this one.

However, MdK only beat Snaith by 8 wins this time. Should 9 maiden wins in PE have clinched the championship for Snaith? I think the R21 million vs R12 million says it all.

There are many differences between the competition of jockeys and trainers, the most obvious being a jockey can only ride one horse in a race. Trainers can campaign from several yards. Most wins for a jock makes huge sense, while most wins for a trainer would make the guy with big yards in poorer centres a likely winner.

So wins for the jocks ensures that just getting Igugu doesn't win you the championship, and for trainers the stakes ensures that winning an extra 50 qualified maidens also won't land you a championship. Why fix it if it isn't broken?

Thank u Jack

Thanks Jack. Your opinion and input is respected.

It just puts another spin into what most of us have been taught in University.

I would like to hear your opinion in the following scenario:-

1. What if all races were run for the same value in stake money.
2. Why is not possible to decide a jockey championship by the amount of stakes he or she has earned (same as the trainers).
I know you have tried to answer that in the above response. Still - I differ in your response. As suppose that is what democracy has taught us. Agree to disagree.
3. There is no rule that prevents a big time trainer from raiding smaller centres and having multiple maiden winners.

I am just trying to understand this whole thing and therefore any input will be invaluable.

[Kaizer Chiefs beats Barcelona( the most valued team in the world) in a soccer game. Score is 2-1. Does that make Barcelona the winner].

Sorry my mind boggles at the moment.

IMO a trainer that can successfully nurture, train bread & butter horses to victory.......thereby making several owners happy.....will be held in high esteem by me.....as opposed to a trainer that only keeps the cream of the crop in his stable......if a horse is not good enough it is sent to a 'smaller' trainer....it is obvious that only the 'rich' stables will win the trainers championship....it is based on monetary earnings....guess who will win the trainers championships 2012......MDK.....is this the only sport were the winner is chosen by how much money he/she has won?

Fortunately the trainer & jock for this season had the most number of winners....unlikey the 2007 season.

Jockey/stallion/trainer/breeder should be based on the number of winners for the season.

What worked 100 years ago does not necessary work well today.....time to evolve....sheep mentality needs to change to adapt to the new owner/trainer/punter for this industry to start thriving.