BETFAIR - ONE YEAR TO THE DAY SINCE IT WAS SUPENDED

Judging betting exchange performance by SA racing on Betfair, without any participation from SA IP addresses,is not really fair!

Englander Wrote:

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> Morning DA. Tis my opinion... and please do not
> think me any expert on this cos like most (or all
> actually!!) things I am most assuredly not! ...
> that the bookies and/or individuals with computer
> systems designed to ensure they don't lose, now
> pretty much control the exchange markets and as I
> have said repeatedly, I find it difficult to get
> what I consider real value (a point here or there
> makes little difference to me, especially if the
> price goes up, better to be with B365 imo where
> the best price is guaranteed). The fact that
> Betdaq is coming under Ladbrokes ownership just
> emphasises the control the bookies have. There may
> well be individually operated SA bookies but most
> here probably use Hwood, BW etc which are of
> course firms. Whether the general odds have
> improved I really couldn't tell you, all I would
> say is when I first started using the exchanges
> they were fun and I found a lot of value. With the
> increasing influence of bookies and systems, I no
> longer find it fun and I struggle for value... but
> I 98% only use it for SA racing and correct
> scores. However, I also think the way bookie firms
> in SA sometimes operate is dreadful, Hwoods early
> prices are often a disgrace imo and the total
> slashing of a price based on the possibility of
> further money coming in for a horse is a joke, the
> amount of backed horses which then drift again is
> unacceptable imho. It should be based on the
> amount of money put on the horse, not what they
> fear might follow. Maybe the UK used to be the
> same and Betfair has helped stop it, I honestly
> can't remember. When you have bookies acting like
> that, Betfair is of course a very attractive
> option, especially with its other benefits.
> Anyway, not sure that answered your "question" but
> I hope so...


thanks for your reply, agree with your assessment about backed horse in SA, that and the scratching rule deduction is a total joke and is the reason why i dont back horses before racetime in SA. The liquidity on SA racing I found, was mostly when racing in the UK had not started. The moment it started the volumes dropped and trading was impossible.

Thanks Rob, Devon Air and Englander and others for your input... I have picked up a few pointers from you blokes.

I am somewhat unconvinced about Englanders reasoning that he has to find value at Betfair by expecting a certain price for his fancy and then not having it met at Betfair. Well, Englander it is not BF fault that the Bookmakers price the horse at say 4/1 and you ( after the greed factor sets in ) want/expect 7/1. I am all behind you when you say that layers dont offer above the odds on outsiders and it can be even frustrating at times getting the rightfull price let alone any stretch.

But on the other hand, with the footie markets, when your sworn by B365 offers say 12/1 about "West London Convent" against Man United, at Betfair you will get about 25/1 or better. What I mean is that soccer outsiders are very, very easy to back on Betfair.

Rob... again that is a fair comment but, equally in fairness to me, I can only say what I see. I have just looked at 2 Irish horses though, one is 5/2 with the bookies and will guarantee the better price if it drifts and is the same price at BF with no guarantee and a 5% reduction if it wins. The other is 4s at the bookies and effectively 4.2 with BF under the same criteria. To me, the sensible bet in both instances is with the bookies... though I suspect they are conrolling the BF as well anyway.

Bashful, not being flippant (written with a smile hoping you'll understand!) but I don't think you fully understand my point. I don't expect a price, I hope for one. If I don't see one better than I would get at the bookies, which is often the case, I don't really see why everyone chirps about BF being so wonderful (in this respect). I LOVE lol getting 7/1 on a 4/1 shot, but such instances are very rare and the stakes allowed at that price very small. More often than not there is very little price differential between BF and the bookies. If a bookie guarantees their price, as B365 do, then they are often the more attractive option to me. Why take 12.5 fixed less 5% of any winnings when you can take 12s with no reduction and if it goes to 14s you get 14s? Until the final 10 minutes nearly all the value is with the bookies. That is my observation and my honest opinion... as things stand now. For football, as I say, correct scores, often not a lot in it if you look at oddschecker but I do also sometimes find value.

DA welcome and thanks for the reply in return.

And I have a question for anyone... What criteria sets the BF sp price? The final odds offered? Does this price take into account the 5% loss on winnings? And is there a minimum amount required as being offered for that price to be viable as the sp... ie if someone is offering 2 pounds at 5/1 is 5/1 the starting price even though you could actually only wager 2 pounds at that price?

Englander I am not sure the relevance of your question but just home from pub and had great difficulty opening a bottle of Bacardi with a sealed vacuum glass attached, almost lost a finger in the process!

Is this SP or projected SP important to the punter/layer?

You are matched by someone with an opposing view at a fixed price and the winner collects less the takeout and at this stage taking out a large glass of Bacardi has become a problem

Lol

lol Dave, I hope you still have all 10 digits (and not too much of a headache!!) this morning

Dave, the question was really just for my own knowledge rather than any particular relevance to that which went before. I don't profess to know much about it and have only tried to convey what I see to clanners to hopefully give them a more informed overview, as things currently stand. I have no idea, as Rob rightly mentions, how much difference it would make to the markets if SA punters could use BF but obviously the volume would be higher. But, I am quite interested in the "workings"... BF is often associated with value, partly because the Betfair SP is often higher than the bookies returned SP. If Betfair though can say their starting price was 5/1 when only 2 pounds could be waged at that price then it suggests to me that their starting price is determined by, for want of a better expression while last night's vodka wears off a pretty thin thread! I accept that again this primarily concerns SA racing only at the moment as volumes are small but I would just be interested to know.

Morning E

Was just watching BC winning again!

The SP is just the last price matched and the percentage would be close to 100%
Have to get back to pub for rugby

same with interbet....they say interbet best price..eg).14/1...and the bookies best price even with a stretch may only have been 10/1...but ,on interbet only 50 rand was traded at 14/1...surely this is not a true reflection of how good a price u could have got if u stuck with interbet...just an example,i used
even with interbet for me ,it doesn't suit me....if i am trying to get on with 7/1....i cant get the volumes....with a bookie i can easily get 50/7000,interbet suits me with the short prices

but where BF would suit me ,would be...if i really fancy a horse in a race...i would lay another horse in the race at prices better than bookies are laying and hope there are takers on this horse...and for others with different thoughts on that particular race...that may seem like good value for them if they like the horse that i am prepared to lay...

50/7000 ? Are u punting BC

i wish..still a good return 50/7000 on BC...should have read 50 000 /7000....and whilst we speaking of returns...thats also where BF COMES IN...where u lay and back the same horse....Titch showed me a programme...i think it was called GREENING...where we back a horse or sports event and can programme the event that in running as soon as there is a 10% return on your money(or any desired % that u wish to choose)..it automatically starts selling off...it would work well with a horse like FROM MY HEART..(A LONG TIME AGO)...WHERE it normally went off at 6 or 7/10...but was always tailed off..in running..u would get at least 15/10....and u BUY...but not so well for a horse like VARIETY CLUB...WHERE it goes to the front and never looks like getting beat

Thanks guys... and Dave, I have no clue who BC is or are!! lol

BC =BLACK CAVIAR