Betfred,enjoy your games...

Bob open up an account rather with Hollywood or Interbet mate..sometimes things in SA are better

I have a friend who takes bets on Betfair for me ................every bet I have ever submitted ,unless I am asking unreasonable prices, has been met in full!

(Englander,I hear what you say about prices,but getting 50/1 about 14/1 shots is not ever likely to be the norm.................at one stage you couldn't get on Zimbabwe racing here due to them getting nailed by the shrewdies.)

Rob, you asked the question and seemed to imply that no-one ever answers, I attempted to oblige! lol I supplied a few reasons why I don't particularly like Betfair and they can be just as aggravating as a normal bookie in different ways, waiting for the exchange price on a SA race to match that shown in the bookies can test ones patience more than a little! If you are fortunate that you get acceptable prices every time then good for you, I would suspect on that basis though you are usually backing one of the market leaders and probably within 30 minutes of the start of a race. Your friend may also work harder and show a lot more patience on your behalf than you suspect, though maybe not of course.

The 50s is merely a striking example Rob to show why the lack of fair early prices on the exchanges is a big negative for that method of betting on SA racing. I find the same on many horses whatever their price (outside of the market leaders) and getting a competitive price even an hour before the start of a race is nigh on impossible. As I said, it is often (though in fairness far from always) only in the last few minutes before a race that they will outdo a bookies price (remembering of course the 5% cut they take). By that time market movers have been hit and the value gone. The prices are now evidently controlled by bookies and machines anyway so that is no great surprise. I do not look for prices which are unreasonable, simply fair would suit me fine. When I am in the UK I use Betfair on just about every SA race every day, have done for the past two months, and generally over the past 5 years or so. My experiences are factual, simply based on a punter wanting to back horses on the exchange to a reasonable amount at a reasonable price. It may suit some but for me it has lost all its appeal and is simply useful to the extent that it is an exchange not a bookie.

Not that no one ever answers , just that I don't understand getting the same treatment on a daily basis and not finding a solution even though some compromise will have to be accepted-many of the complaints about normal bookies are repetitive and they would not apply to exchanges-i know I would accept some compromises to avoid the aggravation.

Rob there are lots of advantages of using bookmakers ,one of them is to arb lol on bet fair

But they also are very competitive these days and offer things like best odds gtd , plus they don't charge when your a long term winner like bet fair do

I went in my local shop yesterday... it would be a bit unfair to name which company - so let's call them by the ficticional name '' Hilliam Will's '' ... anyway a guy come in and asks for a bet on a football match ' both teams to score ' ..... £300 @11/10 . Firstly it surprised me that the branch manager had to phone the bet through PRIOR to acceptance ( bearing in mind it potentially wins a mere £330 profit if successful ) and secondly and more surprisingly the punter was restricted to just £100 @11/10 and was offered the remaining £200 @EV'S ... thus reducing the potential win by £20 .... it's absolutely laughable in this day and age that this code of practice is happening. Complete Jokers.

Dave,there are just so many parts of the issue that I don't get:

I had a bookmakers licence for a while and ,like any business,you need turnover to exist and I spent a lot of time getting the guys who ran it to increase clientele...........winners and losers were welcome.........it's how you manage the income that counts...........we made more profits out of our shrewd punters than the "mugs"(they recycled many more times) we were giving stretches and taking back at double and treble stretches..........the more the better!
I assume that the big firms have just become like big corporates with the coalface staff having no bookmaking skills ,therefore no authority ,just basic rules to work by?
Running a book ,trying to second guess which punter may be about to have a winning bet is ludicrous and contrary to the very principle ,surely.
The UK has some famous huge and shrewd punters ...........they can't be placing their bets in parcels of BP2 at a time!
How are the really big boys managing to punt?
It really does intrigue me.

rob faux Wrote:

---

> Dave,there are just so many parts of the issue
> that I don't get:
>
> I had a bookmakers licence for a while and ,like
> any business,you need turnover to exist and I
> spent a lot of time getting the guys who ran it to
> increase clientele...........winners and losers
> were welcome.........it's how you manage the
> income that counts...........we made more profits
> out of our shrewd punters than the "mugs"(they
> recycled many more times) we were giving stretches
> and taking back at double and treble
> stretches..........the more the better!
> I assume that the big firms have just become like
> big corporates with the coalface staff having no
> bookmaking skills ,therefore no authority ,just
> basic rules to work by?
> Running a book ,trying to second guess which
> punter may be about to have a winning bet is
> ludicrous and contrary to the very principle
> ,surely.
> The UK has some famous huge and shrewd punters
> ...........they can't be placing their bets in
> parcels of BP2 at a time!
> How are the really big boys managing to punt?
> It really does intrigue me.

Fitzdares will take a big bet,but it's invite only..sure there are a few bespoke bookmakers.The high street bookie is useless and internet firms even worse.

Rob we got limited for taking a mugs bet on Richard Hughes mounts on Sunday

Up until a few years ago here in Australia, the bookies all bet a quarter the odds the place all races, except 5-7 runners where it was a third. They also bet the fractions, so at 6-1 they would bet 1000/160 and 250/160 the place, and the like. It was easy for the clerks, in those halycion days of oncourse bookmaking when massive bets were taken by the bookies, even at provincial midweek meetings.
I looked at a 1973 Melbourne racebook recently and there were 160 bookies operating on course.

rob faux Wrote:

---

> Dave,there are just so many parts of the issue
> that I don't get:
>
> I had a bookmakers licence for a while and ,like
> any business,you need turnover to exist and I
> spent a lot of time getting the guys who ran it to
> increase clientele...........winners and losers
> were welcome.........it's how you manage the
> income that counts...........we made more profits
> out of our shrewd punters than the "mugs"(they
> recycled many more times) we were giving stretches
> and taking back at double and treble
> stretches..........the more the better!
> I assume that the big firms have just become like
> big corporates with the coalface staff having no
> bookmaking skills ,therefore no authority ,just
> basic rules to work by?
> Running a book ,trying to second guess which
> punter may be about to have a winning bet is
> ludicrous and contrary to the very principle
> ,surely.
> The UK has some famous huge and shrewd punters
> ...........they can't be placing their bets in
> parcels of BP2 at a time!
> How are the really big boys managing to punt?
> It really does intrigue me.

The 'takeback' market has collapsed Rob.

rob faux Wrote:

---

> Dave,there are just so many parts of the issue
> that I don't get:

Rob, that is almost the entire point... we don't get it either and that is why the frustration and annoyance is so great. It really is a case of "don't win" in any consistent manner (even if losing overall) if you want to bet.

To answer about compromise, you are of course entirely correct. But, naturally that is exactly what we do. As another silly example, it is nice to get a winner, but when you know you could have had the horse at 5/1 in the morning but have to accept 5/2 day after day it is even aggravating when winning. Compromises yes, but not good ones. DTF was in that shop no doubt as a compromise, because he can't use the internet he is forced out to the shops (which has other disadvantages I won't go into! lol)

It is also imo very important that DTF and his like continue to moan however repetitive or boring it is. The more punters are made aware, certainly in the UK, that it is a pointless exercise starting to punt the more bookies income will be hit and they may start to reconsider their draconian policies. If they don't then it will eventually kill the industry.

And... "Running a book ,trying to second guess which punter may be about to have a winning bet is ludicrous and contrary to the very principle ,surely" ... you said it (tu)