Claims now R20k

Claims are now

R20 000 in the Cape,KZN AND JHB
R10 000 PE and Fluminko

First timers 1/2 the above as are half claims

IMO claims are ridiculously small and don't make it a solid accurate market easily open to manipulation

Has Hollywood reduced my claims

Claims are a bag of sh1te imho and I completely agree with BY, they make it all far too open for manipulation and punter deception. Should be brought to an end.

What is claims? How does it work?

20,000 rand is £1100
I know a bookmaker that will take a £10,000 no problem..

Jack Dash [ PM ]
Re: Claims (urgent info)
January 09, 2014 04:59AM Registered: 6 years ago
Posts: 1,580

"Claims"
Once the betting for a race or meeting is open, a bookmaker can decide at any time that he wants to claim a runner. For ordinary races a full claim is a bet to win R20k.

Here is what makes a claim different from an ordinary bet: only a bookmaker takes the claim-bet from a (group of bookmakers who together stand those claim-bets) at the price displayed, that triggers a change in that price.

So a punter can have any size bet(s) from their bookmaker to the extent to which they both agree. Completely independently of those bets, any bookmaker can decide at any time to have a claim bet which forces a shortening of the odds against that claim.

So a possible example is for a horse which is 8/1. You have a bet at the stretch or online for R1,500 and get @ 10/1 a bet 15,000/1,500. If the bookmaker wants to hedge your bet and can't get back 10/1, or if he thinks your bet is the beginning of a barrage of bets on the same horse or that the odds are now too generous, he can claim 20k @ 8/1 that the claim-offering bookmaker "must" lay and adjust (or 10k half claim and lesser adjustment).

Very often a bookmaker will see a horse that he believes to be over priced and claim it to (a) bring the price into what he believes is the right price and (b) get some stock at what is in his opinion an "inflated" price, this often causes the horse to shorten even further once the rumors start flying and creates an impression that this has to be "informed" money which, in most cases it is not....a lot of people forget a fundamental fact and that is, when a horse opens "odds on" it has nothing to do with the stable (who usually get the brunt of punters anger when it loses) but is merely the assessment of a price maker who will also take into account the rider of the horse and adjust the opening price in accordance to any "Jockey Strike" that may occur which leads to some of our better jockeys getting slated, Karl N is one that I believe is the biggest victim to this scenario but Striker, Anton Anthony D and others are all not immune while in fact the opening prices of their rides have absolutely nothing to do with them....

Titch Wrote:

---

> Very often a bookmaker will see a horse that he
> believes to be over priced and claim it to (a)
> bring the price into what he believes is the right
> price and (b) get some stock and what is in his
> opinion an "inflated" price, this often causes the
> horse to shorten even further once the rumors
> start flying and creates an impression that this
> has to be "informed" money which, in most cases it
> is not....a lot of people forget a fundamental
> fact and that is, when a horse opens "odds on" it
> has nothing to do with the stable (who usually get
> the brunt of punters anger when it loses) but is
> merely the assessment of a price maker who will
> also take into account the rider of the horse and
> adjust the opening price in accordance to any
> "Jockey Strike" that may occur which leads to some
> of our better jockeys getting slated, Karl N is
> one that I believe is the biggest victim to this
> scenario but Striker, Anton Anthony D and others
> are all not immune while in fact the opening
> prices of their rides have absolutely nothing to
> do with them....

titch...whilst this may be true...here we are not talking opening prices...but rather we talking claims after prices have been opened...and the biggest manipulation with bookies offering pittance claims of R10 000 and R5000 in minor centres regarding first timers..normally come back to bite them ,as in todays day and age inflation has far surpassed what we had 10 and 15 years ago...when claims were the same...at these ridiculous figures..even the car guard can shorten a 25/1 shot .....but where i say...it can be manipulated...about a year ago we wanted to back the favourite in pe...which was 16/10...our first claim witha first timer in the race@7/1 was 5000/700...horse comes into 7/2....second claim...5000/1400...horse comes in 18/10...3rd claim 5000/2750....so far..4850..sacrificed....first timer is now 6/10...original favourite...went from 18/10...to 33/10...antepost..after the claims...syndicate..took..200 000/60000...with various bookmakers...at original price...bet would have been around 100 000/60 0000....so to sacrifice 4850 for a 100 000 gain...made good sense...BUT...this could only be possible to get away so cheaply with,was because of these ridiculous claims.....i guess many want to know how the story ended......the first timer won...our horse ran second....name of horse..VIVALDA WAS THE FIRST TIMER...NOMENCLATURE WAS THE OTHER HORSE....SO TO THE OWNERS OF VIVALDA...WE WERENT STEALING YOUR PRICE...WE WERE TRYING TO GET ON SOMETHING ELSE....lol

RG..
I remember this vividly.
Still made money although the wrong horse won (for me).
{crooks}

Muzi vs S'Manga

RACING GURU Wrote:

---

> Titch Wrote:
>

---

>

---

> > Very often a bookmaker will see a horse that he
> > believes to be over priced and claim it to (a)
> > bring the price into what he believes is the
> right
> > price and (b) get some stock and what is in his
> > opinion an "inflated" price, this often causes
> the
> > horse to shorten even further once the rumors
> > start flying and creates an impression that
> this
> > has to be "informed" money which, in most cases
> it
> > is not....a lot of people forget a fundamental
> > fact and that is, when a horse opens "odds on"
> it
> > has nothing to do with the stable (who usually
> get
> > the brunt of punters anger when it loses) but
> is
> > merely the assessment of a price maker who will
> > also take into account the rider of the horse
> and
> > adjust the opening price in accordance to any
> > "Jockey Strike" that may occur which leads to
> some
> > of our better jockeys getting slated, Karl N is
> > one that I believe is the biggest victim to
> this
> > scenario but Striker, Anton Anthony D and
> others
> > are all not immune while in fact the opening
> > prices of their rides have absolutely nothing
> to
> > do with them....
>
> titch...whilst this may be true...here we are not
> talking opening prices...but rather we talking
> claims after prices have been opened...and the
> biggest manipulation with bookies offering
> pittance claims of R10 000 and R5000 in minor
> centres regarding first timers..normally come back
> to bite them ,as in todays day and age inflation
> has far surpassed what we had 10 and 15 years
> ago...when claims were the same...at these
> ridiculous figures..even the car guard can shorten
> a 25/1 shot .....but where i say...it can be
> manipulated...about a year ago we wanted to back
> the favourite in pe...which was 16/10...our first
> claim witha first timer in the race@7/1 was
> 5000/700...horse comes into 7/2....second
> claim...5000/1400...horse comes in 18/10...3rd
> claim 5000/2750....so
> far..4850..sacrificed....first timer is now
> 6/10...original favourite...went from 18/10...to
> 33/10...antepost..after the
> claims...syndicate..took..200 000/60000...with
> various bookmakers...at original price...bet would
> have been around 100 000/60 0000....so to
> sacrifice 4850 for a 100 000 gain...made good
> sense...BUT...this could only be possible to get
> away so cheaply with,was because of these
> ridiculous claims.....i guess many want to know
> how the story ended......the first timer won...our
> horse ran second....name of horse..VIVALDA WAS THE
> FIRST TIMER...NOMENCLATURE WAS THE OTHER
> HORSE....SO TO THE OWNERS OF VIVALDA...WE WERENT
> STEALING YOUR PRICE...WE WERE TRYING TO GET ON
> SOMETHING ELSE....lol

Excuse my ignorance but in order to get the total of 60,000 on at 33-10 did you all have to put on your bets with the various bookmakers at exactly the same time?