So it's not exactly unexpected news that Yorker

harry hotspur Wrote:

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> Frodo Wrote:
>

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>

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> > According to sahorseracing,:
> >
> > Weights Published: Tuesday, 10 June
> >
> > I'm sure it's Tuesday the 10th today, so where
> are
> > they ? (Or do they need to re-program the
> > calculator now that Yorker is out?)
>
>
> they up Frodo on sahorseracing.co.za


Thx (tu)

I would be very loathe to suggest that the trainer was playing games (not saying that anyone was implying that). His reputation suggests otherwise. He wanted Yorker in the July as he felt that the horse had a strong chance. As did most I'm sure.

Ultimately however, the final decision was not up to him and say what you like about they owners, a) it's their full and complete right to do with the horse as they see fit, and b) it was never stated that the horse was 'guaranteed' to run in the July.

At the time that Brugman said Yorker was 99% likely to run in the July, he was going on the information available to him at that point. Things change - as we all knew full well that they might. Can't ask the oke to predict the future. If we could do that, there would be no point in racing at all

As a punter I understand the risks of ante-post. With the speculation around Yorker I waited for greater certainty and had left him alone because of the rumours around his overseas campaign. Knowing that horses had to be in quarantine yesterday afternoon by 12, I only struck my bets last night and this morning. WRONGLY presuming that if he was in quarantine he would have no longer been priced up. I had also inquired from persons who were racing Saturday and said that Woodruff had commented that he had left something on the horse to work on for the July. I find it a bit hard to digest that despite being in quarantine by yesterday lunch time I was still able to bet on him this morning.
I do have some 60 to 1 on Rakes Chesnut to console myself though.

hibernia Wrote:

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> ICE, thats not the point,punters know the risk
> with antepost betting.
>
> But in Yorkers case i wrote on the forum on the
> 26th May that he was going oversees , yet it was
> virtually denied
>
> Now he was officially scratched today?
>
> but was quarantine not on the 8th?


I never take ante but this has become part of the hype of the July - If you knew, Bob, the connections did too- All they had to do is say "Punters beware as we may be sending him away" Nothing more - If you then put your money down you know the risk - This game needs more honesty for it to survive

Its common knowledge that jooste,van niekerk,du plessis,kantor hate the bookmakers,so scratch the horse to tell the punters to use the tote.

JC Wrote:

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> Thanks for the explanation, makes sense now.
>
> I kept thinking that without
> owners/trainers/jockeys etc there would be no
> industry but keep forgetting how much the punters
> contribute. Guess we all need each other so it
> would be fair to say that more transparency is
> required from trainers/owners... and from the
> bookies!
>
> Is it fair to say that if everyone knew that
> taking anti-post bets were at own risk there
> wouldn't be much of a problem from a punting point
> of view (with regards to Yorker in this scenario)?
>
>
> And in the same sense, if the owners/trainers were
> transparent about Yorker going overseas instead of
> partaking in this race?

Wrong thinking again.......................there would be racing without punters........................but not in S.Africa for sure. You could send your horse to the Middle East to Dubai or Saudi Arabia and race for the stakes only........................now there's something worth considering next time you buy a horse.

Horse racing was initially a challenge between owners who put up the stake and winner takes all........................no punters needed to fund the stakes pot........................can be revived if owners are keen to prove a point.

mikesack Wrote:

---

> JC Wrote:
>

---

>

---

> > Thanks for the explanation, makes sense now.
> >
> > I kept thinking that without
> > owners/trainers/jockeys etc there would be no
> > industry but keep forgetting how much the
> punters
> > contribute. Guess we all need each other so it
> > would be fair to say that more transparency is
> > required from trainers/owners... and from the
> > bookies!
> >
> > Is it fair to say that if everyone knew that
> > taking anti-post bets were at own risk there
> > wouldn't be much of a problem from a punting
> point
> > of view (with regards to Yorker in this
> scenario)?
> >
> >
> > And in the same sense, if the owners/trainers
> were
> > transparent about Yorker going overseas instead
> of
> > partaking in this race?
>
> Wrong thinking again.......................there
> would be racing without
> punters........................but not in S.Africa
> for sure. You could send your horse to the Middle
> East to Dubai or Saudi Arabia and race for the
> stakes only........................now there's
> something worth considering next time you buy a
> horse.
>
> Horse racing was initially a challenge between
> owners who put up the stake and winner takes
> all........................no punters needed to
> fund the stakes pot........................can be
> revived if owners are keen to prove a point.
Very true, but then they discovered that the peasants in the Kingdoms were betting on the outcome so they started stealing a portion of the betting monies and used that to fund the prize money..............and the theft has never stopped...........lol

(10 June 2014)
David Thiselton
In shock news today the fancied Geoff Woodruff-trained Yorker was pulled out of the Vodacom Durban July and the plan to send him overseas has been reverted to.
Derek Brugman, the racing manager of Yorker’s part-owner Markus Jooste, said, “We have always said that we would look at how he was handicapped before deciding to run him. He ran to about a 115 in the Gold Challenge on Saturday and the handicappers didn’t lower him, despite not giving the winner King Of Pain what we believed should be his full rating of 117 and instead giving him only 114. The horses on the shipment to Dubai are all in Johannesburg already and have to be in quarantine by Friday, so the appeals process would not be completed before then.
“Furthermore, last year when we lodged a merit ratings appeal on behalf of two July horses’ (Hill Fifty Four and Whiteline Fever), and were later proven to be correct, the appeal was only heard on the week of the July and we weren’t refunded our deposit. We don’t believe Yorker is good enough to win the July off a 118 so have decided to send him overseas as soon as possible, rather than run a dirty third. He will be on tomorrow’s float from Clairwood to Johannesburg.”
Brugman added that Jooste’s retained jockey Anton Marcus will now ride the champion owner’s only remaining runner, the Woodruff-trained Rake’s Chestnut.

IMO handicappers got it wrong again. KOP beat a 118 and nett 117 by over a length and gets a 114. Surely this isn't consistent when you consider penalties other horses get. If you want to run in Group 1's at level weights you should get the rating you run to on the day. We often see horses badly out at the weights picking up huge increases for running 4th.

shrek Wrote:

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> IMO handicappers got it wrong again. KOP beat a
> 118 and nett 117 by over a length and gets a 114.
> Surely this isn't consistent when you consider
> penalties other horses get. If you want to run in
> Group 1's at level weights you should get the
> rating you run to on the day. We often see horses
> badly out at the weights picking up huge increases
> for running 4th.

I agree - Fluke or not you've got the Gr 1 and money now you should have to carry the pudding - there was really no interference or any other external factors that caused him to win(unless you count setting the pace as one)

whitehouse Wrote:

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> Its common knowledge that jooste,van niekerk,du
> plessis,kantor hate the bookmakers,so scratch the
> horse to tell the punters to use the tote.

That's a bit of a stretch mate...

I took some on H54 last Monday. Tuesday at Kenilworth I was told that H54 was scratched the Friday before.

Called Interbet to moan and they refunded me. Food for thought.