Trip Tease :S

I know LG and KN are debating this subject on another thread and I readily admit that i have little or no knowledge on exactly how the merit rating system actually works but the fact that Trip Tease who has won 2 on Turf and 4 on the sand has a higher Turf rating than Sand not only confuses me completely but surely proves that there are definitely flaws in the system as it is currently being implemented ..:S the horse beat an 8 yo when winning his first race on the Turf and then admittedly won a cracker of a race last time out on the Turf beating a decent field but how the ratings can suggest that this horse is better on the Turf than on the sand is beyond me...I am not in any way trying to be facetious but would love to know the reasoning behind this rating, which to me seems outrageous..

This horse wasn't really well weighted being a pinnacle plate but he ran a cracker with some really good sprinters. Well done to louis.g hope this horse doesn't stop here.

Titch, he ran off an officially allocated 86 on his 5th Turff attempt. He beat Arum Pot by a short head and was raised to a 88 on Turf. Back to sand, after each win he was raised and they decided that he is a "progressive sort" , so raised his Turf rating along with his sand rating.... because the system allows them to do it if they like......
This is why they need restrictions, because their mindset is negative and because they are proving this over and over. They have an obsession to stop horses which clouds their judgement and negatively effects good and consistent horses. They are creating the need for us to go back 30 years and to give horses runs. The only rewards from the handicappers are for poor runs. Good runs are severely penalised.
A balanced approach can easily be found under same handicapping rules and guidelines, if the mindset is right.
Titch, I will see u at Clairwood tomorrow and explain more.

4 from 4 on the sand have the handicapers stopped him as well on this surface?will probably get the capped penalty for his last win as well....maybe we should hear from the other trainers who take on trip tease on the sand to hear if they think he is unfairly treated for example mr rahilly trainer of sugar and shake...:S

pirates Wrote:

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> 4 from 4 on the sand have the handicapers stopped
> him as well on this surface?will probably get the
> capped penalty for his last win as well....maybe
> we should hear from the other trainers who take on
> trip tease on the sand to hear if they think he is
> unfairly treated for example mr rahilly trainer
> of sugar and shake...:S

Sand rating, whatever new one is, has been earned through performance on the surface...

Turf rating, equal to sand rating before last run, has NOT been earned through performance...

I don't think that @lg can have any qualms about sand rating of Trip Tease...there is a problem with the turf rating though...

pirates Wrote:

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> 4 from 4 on the sand have the handicapers stopped
> him as well on this surface?will probably get the
> capped penalty for his last win as well....maybe
> we should hear from the other trainers who take on
> trip tease on the sand to hear if they think he is
> unfairly treated for example mr rahilly trainer
> of sugar and shake...:S


Pirates,in the last run Sugar and Shake was weighted to turn the tables on Trip Tease(albeit a pinnacle plate)..........as we see so often ,the horse could/did not reproduce the form!............... surely Trip Tease's consistency shouldn't be blamed for that!

rob faux Wrote:

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> pirates Wrote:
>

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>

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> > 4 from 4 on the sand have the handicapers
> stopped
> > him as well on this surface?will probably get
> the
> > capped penalty for his last win as
> well....maybe
> > we should hear from the other trainers who take
> on
> > trip tease on the sand to hear if they think he
> is
> > unfairly treated for example mr rahilly
> trainer
> > of sugar and shake...:S
>
>
> Pirates,in the last run Sugar and Shake was
> weighted to turn the tables on Trip Tease(albeit a
> pinnacle plate)..........as we see so often ,the
> horse could/did not reproduce the
> form!............... surely Trip Tease's
> consistency shouldn't be blamed for that!


when triptease beat sugar and shake the first time the winning margin could have been doubled so he had zero chance of beating him on Thursday even though better off...next time they meet trip tease will beat him again...one has to watch the race instead of just handicapping them on paper

In both starts Trip Tease and Hang Fire 's relative form was constant..................so forgetting how far TripTease could have won by ,Sugar and Shake's run was nearly 5 lengths inferior to it's previous run on a collateral through Hang Fire, who is fairly consistent on sand!

Well spotted Rob ! Hang Fire is the key.
No, I am not arguing Trip Tease ' sand rating. Anyone who understands plain English would get that.... so, Pirates, please have a closer look at his Turf rating and justify it...

And let me help you Pirates.... now a 99 on Turf. Yet , his last Turf run was off a 86 when he beat Arum Pot by a short head and earned an official 88. So, if he went back to the Turf, against Arum Pot, he would be at least 6 , 5 kg's out to Arum Pot for a short head..... yeah, great system, great handicapping !

And maybe someone more intelligent than me can explain Papa Joe ' rating today.....

A horse should only be given different ratings for turf and sand if there is clear evidence that it's performance is different on the two surfaces. Trip Tease has improved with every run, whether on sand or turf. The handicapper's decision to give him a a single rating for both surfaces (99) based on his recent sand runs is more logical than to ignore his 3 recent runs and to leave him with a separate (and much lower) turf rating.

And what about the rest of the horses which improve on one surface ? Why not them too ? Huh ?
Why not Pylon ?