Trainers doing deals with owners

  • Bob Brogan
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Trainers doing deals with owners

10 years 11 months ago
#489241
Why would any owner send a horse good or more likely bad to a trainer that has to do deals to get animals?

I keep hearing stories of trainers bailing other trainers out for feed etc and time and time again the words stakes deal no feed keeps on cropping up.

I`m dead against it ,surely this can only be a bad thing ?

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  • mr hawaii
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Re: Re: Trainers doing deals with owners

10 years 11 months ago
#489265
hibernia Wrote:
> Why would any owner send a horse good or more
> likely bad to a trainer that has to do deals to
> get animals?
>
> I keep hearing stories of trainers bailing other
> trainers out for feed etc and time and time again
> the words stakes deal no feed keeps on cropping
> up.
>
> I`m dead against it ,surely this can only be a bad
> thing ?


well if true - Trainer A bails out Trainer B - Then both nave a horse nominated for a race - Trainer B has for the argument the better horse and is asked by A to make the horse no good in lieu of debts - Many permutations BUT i know for years Trainers at the Vaal have loaned equipment, feed, bedding etc to each other with no malice intended

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  • Bob Brogan
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Re: Re: Trainers doing deals with owners

10 years 11 months ago
#489268
MR h it's the horse I'm more worried about

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  • mr hawaii
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Re: Re: Trainers doing deals with owners

10 years 11 months ago
#489273
hibernia Wrote:
> MR h it's the horse I'm more worried about


Bob the NHRA should do something and owners found supporting a yard that operates in this matter(making deals that if the horse does not earn they the owners don't pay - stakes share only) should have their colours suspended -

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  • Bob Brogan
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Re: Re: Trainers doing deals with owners

10 years 11 months ago
#489275
Or is it the owners fault? Too many cunts acting like billy big baws owning horses when they have no got two rand to their name?

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  • louisg
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Re: Re: Trainers doing deals with owners

10 years 11 months ago
#489276
Hibs, it can not be a good thing, excepting in very exceptional circumstances. But, those exceptional circumstances never arise..... for example, any Trainer would be MAD not to take Horse Chestnut or Igugu or Variety Club on a no fees half stakes deal. But the Owners would be mad to offer the deal. But, some Trainers do the deal, hoping for Horse Chestnut but end up with a chestnut horse....

The practice cannot be banned, as Trainers are self employed and are entitled to charge what they like, if they like. As soon as a minimum price is agreed upon or enforced, that ends up at the Competition Commission , being classed as some type of price fixing. Now, I have to be careful how I word the following - the NHA no longer place bad payers on a defaulters list, as per their rules. The plainant must first obtain judgement against the defaulter, before the defaulter is placed on nha defaulter list. The attitude of nha is that this is a civil matter. So, the nha surely wont ban free Training for half stakes, as this is not their concern.

Another situation which is cropping up a lot lately, is the undercutting of Training fees, in order to get horses. Often these prices are blatantly below cost and it is clear that the horses cannot be given the best, at these rates. In many cases, there are complaints later from same Owners, when exhorbitant "extras" bills arrive and also vet bills.... In some instances, Trainers even live in their yards, as a means to cut prices. (please don't confuse living in the yard with a Trainer going through a rough patch and working hard to rebuild his string - I have been there and done that) And the fact of the matter is that there are many takers for these deals.

However, Hibs, I still wait to see the really good , consistent and competitive Trainer compete in the "cheap price" market. Getting the best out of every horse and taking the horse to its true potential, requires the very best of everything - best food, fodder, supplements and deep clean bedding, top class grooms and proper structuring of the roles of a dedicated staff contingent, a huge daily effort in terms of stable management and attention to detail for every horse. And that cannot be done cheaply.

There are often rumours about horses stabled in poor conditions. Again , that must be policed by NHA. Yes, recently, I came to know about a Trainer who had semi abandoned his horses, leaving them locked up all day and night in their stable, allegedly giving them water at night and small amounts of roughage. I have made no secret of the fact that I took those horses care into my hands immediately and reported the matter to nha. To their credit and in particular, to the credit of Stipendary Steward, Nick Shearer, nha acted immediately. The Trainer doesn't train anymore.

Personally, I think that half stakes, no keep is very bad for racing overall. The ones who don't need to do it, don't do it and the ones who need to do it, battle even more because of it.

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  • Bob Brogan
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Re: Re: Trainers doing deals with owners

10 years 11 months ago
#489277
Louis the punter suffers aswell? The only way these guys can work is through the punt , which means there must be a bit jiggery pokery going on?

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  • mr hawaii
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Re: Re: Trainers doing deals with owners

10 years 11 months ago
#489278
hibernia Wrote:
> Louis the punter suffers aswell? The only way
> these guys can work is through the punt , which
> means there must be a bit jiggery pokery going on?


but are they then giving proper feed to the horses they are setting up and giving less to those that they are not(because they cannot afford it)? The obviously don't care a dot about the animal and should be banned

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  • louisg
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Re: Re: Trainers doing deals with owners

10 years 11 months ago
#489279
Hibs, I don't actually think that everyone is actually sharp enough or capable, in that dept......

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  • Bob Brogan
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Re: Re: Trainers doing deals with owners

10 years 11 months ago
#489280
Thanks for the post LG

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  • Sham Racing
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Re: Re: Trainers doing deals with owners

10 years 11 months ago
#489384
WitH you there Louis....no way can you train without giving a horse 150% of the best! be that feed! farrier! groom and your time !,

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  • jim
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Re: Re: Trainers doing deals with owners

10 years 11 months ago
#489391
the easiest way to look at this is to do the arithmetic. north natal or cape costs at least 100 k a year for an owner to keep a horse in training, real cost to the trainer is probably half of that - most good pre trainers or spellers charge about 60 k pa and make a living. so how many horses earn 100 k a year - what the trainer needs to cover his costs. I reckon less than half so not a good business decision.

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