Racing in Gauteng without Sand!
- rob faux
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Racing in Gauteng without Sand!
9 years 7 months ago - 9 years 7 months ago
As we have seen there are many varied views as to the merits or demerits of closing the sand track,and,as these have been extensively debated on other threads,I would like to question the thinking of our brilliant operators,regarding the future!
I will try not to be judgemental but just ask some questions and see where that takes us!
a)Operators have stated,in spite of the success and number of meetings saved in PE,that they did not budget for a Polytrack in this years budget???????????????????????
b)they are closing the sand track and ,at great expense ,will convert it to a 3rd turf track at the Vaal.
SO,for the foreseeable future.........................after,say 5 days of rain, we will now have an extra waterlogged track,unfit for racing ,instead of a polytrack ,fit for purpose?
I am trying to understand the logic and what kind of IQ it takes to decide how they prioritise what they do have to spend ....................please help!
I will try not to be judgemental but just ask some questions and see where that takes us!
a)Operators have stated,in spite of the success and number of meetings saved in PE,that they did not budget for a Polytrack in this years budget???????????????????????
b)they are closing the sand track and ,at great expense ,will convert it to a 3rd turf track at the Vaal.
SO,for the foreseeable future.........................after,say 5 days of rain, we will now have an extra waterlogged track,unfit for racing ,instead of a polytrack ,fit for purpose?
I am trying to understand the logic and what kind of IQ it takes to decide how they prioritise what they do have to spend ....................please help!
Last edit: 9 years 7 months ago by rob faux.
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- Bob Brogan
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Re: Racing in Gauteng without Sand!
9 years 7 months ago
Rob , do you see a point to having the vaal at all anymore ?
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- rob faux
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Re: Racing in Gauteng without Sand!
9 years 7 months agoBob Brogan wrote: Rob , do you see a point to having the vaal at all anymore ?
Well ,I'm sure we need more than just Turfontein ,and the decision that it would be the Vaal, was made years ago.(rightly or wrongly)
My point is, why have an abundance of tracks that are unraceable in adverse weather when one Polytrack would solve that problem?
I have to assume Clyde got the Job because he is prepared to try and explain the logic rather than question it!!!!!
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- mickeyblue
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Re: Racing in Gauteng without Sand!
9 years 7 months ago
I'll just leave these here....
albertonrecord.co.za/84133/mall-at-newma...y-to-open-its-doors/
www.property24.com/articles/r450m-albert...t-value-centre/21017
albertonrecord.co.za/84133/mall-at-newma...y-to-open-its-doors/
www.property24.com/articles/r450m-albert...t-value-centre/21017
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- Englander
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Re: Racing in Gauteng without Sand!
9 years 7 months ago
Rob, I am going only from memory and comments I have read on ABC and I have no conclusion come the end, just thoughts really.
There seems to be a big issue about using Polytrack in the Gauteng area due to the "seasonal" weather conditions, as in identifying which surface of the "poly" type would work on a permanent basis without there being very big ongoing maintenance costs. Not saying that is necessarily correct, but it is the impression I have gleaned.
As for my memory, I have perhaps been "involved" in SA racing for maybe 6 years now, I don't remember the Vaal sand track having many issues in the first four of those years, it is only in the last two years, on a pretty much continuously worsening position, that the problems have raised their head. That, and again also partly based on comments here, suggest to me that the surface was fine but the maintenance "of late" has been negligent.
The above two paras together suggests, and is only suggests, to me that the restoration of the Vaal sand surface would be the better option for an all-weather surface.
They have perhaps opted for a third grass track so that there will be less racing on each and therefore they can maybe maintain each course better. Historically maintenance just about everywhere has seemingly been a problem (why??) so it would be something I would not have great confidence in but that is for the powers that be to get a grip of. The Vaal, even Gauteng in general, grass surfaces seem reknown for being somewhat horse unfriendly, hence why it would seem many came to rely on the sand surface. If the courses are not maintained well then I am sure many more horses will now have much shorter careers.
I am with Frodo in thinking that any course closure cannot be a good thing and too many have already been lost in recent years. I have no issue with the long straight at the Vaal and in fact, completely the opposite to Bob, especially with the camera angles etc elsewhere, find it one of the best for "entertaining" viewing of races.
There seems to be a big issue about using Polytrack in the Gauteng area due to the "seasonal" weather conditions, as in identifying which surface of the "poly" type would work on a permanent basis without there being very big ongoing maintenance costs. Not saying that is necessarily correct, but it is the impression I have gleaned.
As for my memory, I have perhaps been "involved" in SA racing for maybe 6 years now, I don't remember the Vaal sand track having many issues in the first four of those years, it is only in the last two years, on a pretty much continuously worsening position, that the problems have raised their head. That, and again also partly based on comments here, suggest to me that the surface was fine but the maintenance "of late" has been negligent.
The above two paras together suggests, and is only suggests, to me that the restoration of the Vaal sand surface would be the better option for an all-weather surface.
They have perhaps opted for a third grass track so that there will be less racing on each and therefore they can maybe maintain each course better. Historically maintenance just about everywhere has seemingly been a problem (why??) so it would be something I would not have great confidence in but that is for the powers that be to get a grip of. The Vaal, even Gauteng in general, grass surfaces seem reknown for being somewhat horse unfriendly, hence why it would seem many came to rely on the sand surface. If the courses are not maintained well then I am sure many more horses will now have much shorter careers.
I am with Frodo in thinking that any course closure cannot be a good thing and too many have already been lost in recent years. I have no issue with the long straight at the Vaal and in fact, completely the opposite to Bob, especially with the camera angles etc elsewhere, find it one of the best for "entertaining" viewing of races.
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- rob faux
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Re: Racing in Gauteng without Sand!
9 years 7 months ago - 9 years 7 months agoEnglander wrote: Rob, I am going only from memory and comments I have read on ABC and I have no conclusion come the end, just thoughts really.
There seems to be a big issue about using Polytrack in the Gauteng area due to the "seasonal" weather conditions, as in identifying which surface of the "poly" type would work on a permanent basis without there being very big ongoing maintenance costs. Not saying that is necessarily correct, but it is the impression I have gleaned.
As for my memory, I have perhaps been "involved" in SA racing for maybe 6 years now, I don't remember the Vaal sand track having many issues in the first four of those years, it is only in the last two years, on a pretty much continuously worsening position, that the problems have raised their head. That, and again also partly based on comments here, suggest to me that the surface was fine but the maintenance "of late" has been negligent.
The above two paras together suggests, and is only suggests, to me that the restoration of the Vaal sand surface would be the better option for an all-weather surface.
They have perhaps opted for a third grass track so that there will be less racing on each and therefore they can maybe maintain each course better. Historically maintenance just about everywhere has seemingly been a problem (why??) so it would be something I would not have great confidence in but that is for the powers that be to get a grip of. The Vaal, even Gauteng in general, grass surfaces seem reknown for being somewhat horse unfriendly, hence why it would seem many came to rely on the sand surface. If the courses are not maintained well then I am sure many more horses will now have much shorter careers.
I am with Frodo in thinking that any course closure cannot be a good thing and too many have already been lost in recent years. I have no issue with the long straight at the Vaal and in fact, completely the opposite to Bob, especially with the camera angles etc elsewhere, find it one of the best for "entertaining" viewing of races.
Englander,as I stated,I tried to initiate a different debate.......................you and I,like others, have expressed our views on other threads,but the decision is done .......................that subject now just becomes "nagging".

So,moving on, the reason given for building another turf track prior to a Polytrack,is stated to be,a lack of budget!!!! .........no official mention that the poly is surface is unsuitable!!!!!!..in fact they have stated that the Inside track at Turfontein will be come a polytrack.............I am merely questioning the logic of their priority.
Last edit: 9 years 7 months ago by rob faux.
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- gregbucks
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Re: Racing in Gauteng without Sand!
9 years 7 months ago
As a sport and not necessarily betting sand racing must be the most boring on planet earth imo but my question is what happens to all those horses that only run on the sand...??
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- rob faux
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Re: Racing in Gauteng without Sand!
9 years 7 months ago - 9 years 7 months agogregbucks wrote: As a sport and not necessarily betting sand racing must be the most boring on planet earth imo but my question is what happens to all those horses that only run on the sand...??
Greg,IMO the same as happened to them the 50+ years before sand racing (which BTW was a failed attempt at "All Weather Racing" and maybe should,more sensibly, have been scrapped the moment the main purpose failed???))....................but this is still debating the merits of sand!!!!!!
Last edit: 9 years 7 months ago by rob faux.
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- Englander
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Re: Racing in Gauteng without Sand!
9 years 7 months ago
Rob, sorry, I misread your meaning, probably somewhat stupidly in hindsight lol. My comments were not intended to re-open the debate re sand/poly and I actually agree it is one that needs to be buried now (with the authorities shouldering the blame!).
Part of my intended point though as to why they have gone with the extra grass track alone for now, is that they possibly can't identify what they deem to be a suitable poly surface for the region. From the comments on other ABC threads, there seems to be quite a few who don't think the options currently available would work, though personally I have no clue and may be misunderstanding again. I was simply mentioning the sand because (again possibly, however unlikely) the powers that be may deem that it actually is the best surface suitable of the current available options but don't want it. No point building another "all-weather" track until they are sure it is ultimately not doomed to be another failure.
Part of my intended point though as to why they have gone with the extra grass track alone for now, is that they possibly can't identify what they deem to be a suitable poly surface for the region. From the comments on other ABC threads, there seems to be quite a few who don't think the options currently available would work, though personally I have no clue and may be misunderstanding again. I was simply mentioning the sand because (again possibly, however unlikely) the powers that be may deem that it actually is the best surface suitable of the current available options but don't want it. No point building another "all-weather" track until they are sure it is ultimately not doomed to be another failure.
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- rob faux
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Re: Racing in Gauteng without Sand!
9 years 7 months ago - 9 years 7 months agoEnglander wrote: Rob, sorry, I misread your meaning, probably somewhat stupidly in hindsight lol. My comments were not intended to re-open the debate re sand/poly and I actually agree it is one that needs to be buried now (with the authorities shouldering the blame!).
Part of my intended point though as to why they have gone with the extra grass track alone for now, is that they possibly can't identify what they deem to be a suitable poly surface for the region. From the comments on other ABC threads, there seems to be quite a few who don't think the options currently available would work, though personally I have no clue and may be misunderstanding again. I was simply mentioning the sand because (again possibly, however unlikely) the powers that be may deem that it actually is the best surface suitable of the current available options but don't want it. No point building another "all-weather" track until they are sure it is ultimately not doomed to be another failure.
I hear what your point is,but what Clyde Basel said ,is that they will build a Polytrack ,but only when its in the budget ......................its the priority that astounds me!!!
If Polytrack is unsuitable then maybe Tappeta or whatever,but Gauteng needs All Weather Racing ............they admitted that by building ,what they thought to be, an "All Weather"sandtrack!...................so build it now!!!!!!
Last edit: 9 years 7 months ago by rob faux.
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- Frodo
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Re: Racing in Gauteng without Sand!
9 years 7 months ago
Imo, they have put the cart before the horse - and bugger the poor owners who owns that sand specialist; how can the money to 'convert' the sand track to a turf track be available, but there is no money for a synthetic surface - as rob says, we soon will have the luxury of another turf track - which is of bugger all use if it rains.
But then we also have those lights that were installed at Turffontein at a great expense, but it seems that night racing is happening less and less - another poor application of resources if you ask me
And so it goes ..... :ohmy:
But then we also have those lights that were installed at Turffontein at a great expense, but it seems that night racing is happening less and less - another poor application of resources if you ask me
And so it goes ..... :ohmy:
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- Chris van Buuren
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Re: Racing in Gauteng without Sand!
9 years 7 months ago
So now the Vaal will have an outside track and inside track and a super, duper inside track...... :woohoo:
Phumelela have made so many missteps that to trace all of them would take a slide rule and a wet spot......
I'm kind of over them as far as explanations are concerned, none have been forthcoming and none will, they simply march to the beat of their own drum and will continue to do so.
I think the decision to scrap the vaal sand was a hasty one and this is why they have not come up with a poly option yet. They were forced into the decision due to their inability to manage their own staff members and some pressure from external forces.....
Just once I would like for them to make a decision based on the betterment of SA racing.....just once, I'm still waiting!
Phumelela have made so many missteps that to trace all of them would take a slide rule and a wet spot......
I'm kind of over them as far as explanations are concerned, none have been forthcoming and none will, they simply march to the beat of their own drum and will continue to do so.
I think the decision to scrap the vaal sand was a hasty one and this is why they have not come up with a poly option yet. They were forced into the decision due to their inability to manage their own staff members and some pressure from external forces.....
Just once I would like for them to make a decision based on the betterment of SA racing.....just once, I'm still waiting!
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