Are Trainers and Owners prefering the Polytrack?

Craig Eudey wrote: Louis, I think if the noms are free on both surfaces it is relevant. Just putting it out there that the noms on the polytrack have increased, is it for any other particular reason or are horses pulling up sounder, connections seeing that most horses run well on both surfaces, trainers have stopped using the poly as an excuse for bad runs, connections have realized it is here to stay or what? When Scottsville is in full use again it will be easier to see if the trend continues. It was just interesting to see.

The jocks that ride on the Poly seem to be unanimously complimentary about it as a racing surface,and comment that the surface is excellent for horse and racing.
Is their opinion not the most relevant?

(My problem with Greyville is putting 2 tracks where their is barely room for 1.
I believe they will be forced,one day, to revert back to one track .......but only when the existing ego's are not at stake!)

Rob you sure about that ? they might say that in public , but the couple of jocks I talk to think it's a 100 times better with water/rain . And it changes from one meeting to the next.

Ps UK all weather racing serves a purpose it insures we have flat racing in the winter , but it is not used as an alternative

Bob Brogan wrote: Rob you sure about that ? they might say that in public , but the couple of jocks I talk to think it's a 100 times better with water/rain . And it changes from one meeting to the next.

Ps UK all weather racing serves a purpose it insures we have flat racing in the winter , but it is not used as an alternative

Bob, I can't be sure ,but I'm sure about what I hear,and they didn't lie about their feelings regarding the sand! :huh:
You say that Poly changes from one meeting to the other.....................are you suggesting Poly is more inconsistent than turf?..........I don't think time variants agree!
The meetings saved to date would surely make it valuable when used as an alternative!

All the jocks have said to me that it is better with water but still better than a grass track that has divots on it. No matter what you do to a divot it is not the same consistency as the grass around it and with the poly at least all the divots from the previous race have been sorted out. Stats that I have read show fewer horses break down catastrophically on poly than grass(next best) and sand the worst.

Craig, just as a bit of an aside... if the track really is so much better with "water", does it not follow that the "going" is not always "standard"?

If this is the case, then I assume some horses are likely to perform better/worse depending on how the course is running? And, if so, do you not think that, in fairness to the punter, the correct going should be reported and subsequently recorded in form guides? Say... slow, standard, fast?

maybe bob can post clint larssons article on the s.post website for our readers..

pirates wrote: maybe bob can post clint larssons article on the s.post website for our readers..

www.sportingpost.co.za/2015/12/mailbag-k...rcle-need-to-answer/

pics missing and article better viweing with the pics


Over recent years, through my interactions with fellow owners, trainers, jockeys and punters in general, there is an ever-growing discontent and despair at the state in which KZN racing finds itself, writes owner and Gold Circle member, Clint Larsson.
History and Tradition. We bid farewell to this magnificent racecourse. Who remembers Clairwood?

A few years ago our much beloved Clairwood racecourse was sold and a decision was taken to make adjustments to our premier track, Greyville.
Christmas is a good time to remember the Clairwood glory days Clairwood – glory days
Gone are the days of a wide, lush track with a deep false rail allowing horses to fan across the track in order to get a clear run.

Instead, we have a compromised version allowing for the creation of a poly track on the premise it would enable racing throughout the year, irrespective of weather conditions.

The poly track was to provide an alternative option to the turf and also offered a backstop when heavy rain threatened the abandonment of turf racing. At no stage was it explained that the poly track would become the surface of choice and that the days of a full turf meeting at Greyville, are gone! Instead, if lucky, we are teased with three or four turf races and the rest of the meeting is confined to the scurry of a twelve horse field on the tight poly track.
Perhaps the truth lies in the fact that the Greyville turf is no longer in an acceptable racing condition.

A clue lies in the fact that during the recent winter season, punters had to watch horses canter down on the poly when they were about to contest a Group race on the turf!
Greyville. All seems well again and racing goes on Greyville – check the crowd!

Many punters make their final decisions based on the way a horse moves to post. Arguably, horses’ actions may vary from one surface to another so punters are now left in a quandary.
Another sign that all is not well at Greyville is the fact that soft conditions are now no longer deemed fit for racing.

On Friday 20th November, the first three races were scheduled to be run on turf and after a penetrometer reading of 28, the races were moved to poly. Since when does a 28 reading make a turf track unfit for racing? The powers that be seemingly justified their decision due to the forecast of more rain during the meeting.

So, on to Sunday 22nd November.

After a wet Friday and Saturday, the penetrometer reading at 7.30am was 31.
It's A Beautiful Day! Racing goes ahead at Greyville today Blue skies over Greyville

The sky was blue, a stiff southerly breeze was blowing and there was no threat of rain.

There were four races planned on turf, with the first of these races due off at 3.30pm, eight hours later.
Surely, all systems go? Not so fast! A call was immediately made to move the turf races to poly.

At 12 noon the track manager reported that the races were moved due to “heavy underfoot conditions”.

He then went on to say that despite the clear skies and stiff breeze, the track would not dry sufficiently as a Southerly wind does not dry the track, it needs to blow from the North.

Greyville Polytrack Trials - Martin Collins takes clegg-hammer reading
You must be kidding! I am curious to know if a pen reading was taken at 3.30pm?

Consequently, one race was reduced to four runners and another to just six. Is this what racing in KZN has become? I am not a lone voice in asking this.

Spare a thought for owners and trainers who have horses which enjoy some give in the ground. Your chances of racing at Greyville are slim and the threat of a wet Scottsville track is likely to see the meeting moved to the Greyville poly.
Soft and heavy going is an acceptable racing condition around the world but it is deemed unfit for racing in KZN?

One needs to look no further than the Cape in the winter months or Turffontein after a typical Highveld storm to understand that soft tracks are commonplace.
Gold Circle HQ. Greyville Racecourse in Durban Greyville – before polytrack

Another consideration for KZN owners and trainers is what to do with horses which are staying types?
If your horse is looking for a mile and a half and races keep moving to the poly, the race is limited to 2000m.

Let’s also not forget that the poly is only wide enough for twelve runners, furthermore minimizing opportunities for your horses to run.
Tsogo Sun Golden Horse Casino Scottsville – Golden Horse Casino

On to Scottsville. The bias down the straight has been around for years so let’s not labour the point that if you are drawn in double digits in a handicap you are better served leaving your horse in the box at home.

This course was excessively used along with the poly throughout the Autumn so that Greyville could be “saved for the winter season”, according to many people in racing circles.

How sad that the big G has been reduced to a few races per annum.
Even in the winter season we are unable to enjoy a full turf meeting, something all racing purists desperately miss.

Now that the season is behind us and Scottsville has its much needed Spring treatment, a decision was also taken to add drainage to the inside track.
Most people in racing were unaware of this decision or the cost implication.

Nonetheless, the update is that the track has not repaired sufficiently to host the races planned for the turn on the 6th of December. This includes the R200k KZN Summer challenge races which have been brought forward to 4th Dec at Greyville.

Greyville polytrack

Let’s hope Greyville doesn’t get more than a shower or these races will be moved to poly which will really annoy the connections who have been prepping their horses for these races.

For the record, the races around the turn at Scottsville on 13th have been re-scheduled and moved to Greyville on 11th and 16th. We will have to wait till 20th December for the first race around the turn at Scottsville.
One needs to ask how this happens without consultation or explanation. What is the protocol?

Back to Greyville.

Has a policy decision been taken that we will no longer have a full turf meeting?

When will the cause and not the symptom be treated?

Greyville Racecourse

Every racing person I have spoken to says Greyville’s turf track should be dug up and re-laid so as to solve the problem once and for all.
If there is a reason why this cannot be done, please will someone at Gold Circle enlighten the racing public?

Clairwood - 1987 Gr1 Schweppes Natal Administrators Champions Challenge - MODEL MAN - finish2_compressedA large portion of the proceeds of the sale of Clairwood were ring-fenced.

It would be good to know if, when and how these funds are to be utilized. Surely, restoring Greyville to its former glory should be a priority?

An unbiased Scottsville straight would also be welcomed.
There are many unanswered questions and it is time for Gold Circle to be more accountable and vocal about the state of racing in KZN.

Gold Circle logoA sub-committee of trainer and owner representatives would be a good starting point.

This committee should be given the authority to challenge the status quo and hold the board to account for where racing is headed.

To qualify for the Breeders' Cup series aren't American tracks being "forced" to change from sand to synthetic?

Mac wrote: To qualify for the Breeders' Cup series aren't American tracks being "forced" to change from sand to synthetic?

Santa Anita has changed it surface back to dirt and Del Mar hosts of the 2017 Breeders Cup has also changed it surface back to dirt after being a Polytrack surface. Also Toowoomba in Australia, has removed its Polytrack surface.

You have to hand it to the French though, even their Polytrack races get full size fields and their horses can come from any position.

Fantastic to see the "full" card for Sunday at Scottsville. This must be a first for Natal racing in ages...... Maybe, just maybe, this is what the trainers and owners are looking for ???

another interesting article on the world class s.post website from the usa where they state that turf races attract bigger fields than dirt or synthetic tracks and even when fields are not particularly big customers have shown they would rather bet on grass racing than dirt or synthetic tracks :lol:

That is interesting with USA perceived to be a sand racing country. I see the new noms in today have 458 noms on the 13th at Scottsville, 524 at Greyville on the 16th(4 grass and 4 poly) and 598 at Greyville on the 18th ( all poly and only 7 races).