Blatant tote manipulation

Does it ever have the reverse effect? Does the divedends ever end up paying more?

Karma wrote: Does it ever have the reverse effect? Does the divedends ever end up paying more?

I backed Koncealed for tote places
Was showing 1.4 and I eventually collected R2
"they" had him at .24

If you are very brave the tote place dividends on 5/10 and shorter sometimes yield terrific value.

?.....there is something fundamentally wrong when a system that is supposed capture and record data suddenly starts to give different data after the pools have closed.......they are supposed to be operating in real time and the only time that adjustments can be made to the pools is when a horse is removed from the final results by being declared a non runner......it would seem that in a way that there are these highly noticeable differences that there are adjustments being made post race......understandably the place pools are subject to alteration post race as the operators need to ensure a minimum guarentee payout of one rand and often the favourites are returning less than that after the pool is closed......but why did the win payout on 2 of my bets on Sunday deviate by more than 25%........ :dry:

In an era when Googles AI has just beaten a World Go champion,I simply don't buy that PGE's antiquated tote system is beyond hacking.

I have on numerous occasions now observed races where horses have jumped off as joint tote favs, only for the 'right one' to suddenly go TF as they near the finish.There is virtually always a scratching in these races,so having a banker the scratching and being able to manipulate which horse starts TF just before the finish/as the race finishes is a massive advantage even though all will obviously not win.

This may sound like I have lost the plot,but this is something I have been observing very closely for quite a period of time as I specifically don't trust the tote systems in SA.These are not isolated incidents,it happens often.

How many years now has it been since the 3 million rand place pool saga,and PGE have still never come out with a satisfactory explanation as to what happened there?

SUCK IT UP OR LEAVE IT,PGE should adopt this as it's motto.

Coming back to the TF issue,I observed a race a few months back where the win pool was about 150k.

There were joint TF's when the race jumped,but when the race was at about the 300m mark on Tellytrack the pool ticked up by R500 changing the TF to the horse that was about to win the race.

www.formgrids.com/subscriber/fgRaceResul...-11TN343,ZA&hs=ALEXA

TN343 - Race 4 - R85K - RACING ASSOCIATION MAIDEN PLATE (F and M)
For Maiden Fillies and Mares - 1200m
Horse Jockey Trainer Al/Bl kg Dr Fin Dist Time OP-SP Prev
1 SOUL OF SPAIN S'Manga Khumalo S G Tarry A 60.0 6 1 0.00 73.36 28/10-28/10 VR145
5 ALEXA Gavin Lerena G V Woodruff A 60.0 4 2 2.00 73.73 4/1-16/10F -
12 UPROAR Julius Mariba S G Tarry A 60.0 9 3 8.00 74.88 20/1-20/1 -
2 CATWALK TEASE Piere Strydom E Verdonese A B 60.0 7 4 8.25 74.93 8/1-10/1 TN293
7 CAMBRIDGE CHOIR Marco V'Rensburg D Little A 60.0 10 5 8.55 74.99 40/1-75/1 VR303
9 JUNIPER Ryan Munger *0.0 C Spies A 60.0 8 6 10.35 75.34 8/1-20/1 VS172
4 ABBEY CHASE Raymond Danielson S G Tarry A 60.0 1 7 10.75 75.42 14/1-16/1 -
3 JAYRISTA Chad Little M N Houdalakis A 60.0 5 8 11.00 75.47 14/1-14/1 VR181
6 ASPEN SHADOW Andrew Fortune E G Anderson - 60.0 2 9 15.00 76.27 20/1-8/1 TN269
10 LITTLE VOICE Devin Habib R Francis A 60.0 11 10 28.00 78.98 100/1-75/1 VS1231
13 FOUNTAIN OF NEWS Craig Zackey *0.0 D Zaki a 60.0 3 11 Dist 98.33 50/1-16/1 VS278
8 GUSHESHE (AUS) Scratched TN245

No 8 Gusheshe was disputing favouratism with Alexa,which was backed as a 1st timer.No 8 got scratched at the start.

Here are the tote returns:

Race 4
Win 1 = R 3.30
Place 1 = R 1.30
Place 5 = R 1.60
Place 12 = R 3.70
Swinger 1/5 = R 2.70
Swinger 1/12 = R 11.90
Swinger 5/12 = R 13.40
Exacta 1/5 = R 12.60
Trifecta 1/5/12 = R 177.70
Quartet 1/5/12/2 = R 1150.50
Double 1/1 = R 3.00
Double 1/8 = R 3.00
Favourite 1
Scratched 8,11,14,15

This was conveniently the first leg of the p6 too.

So here's how being able to change the TF is convenient.

You banker 8 and get the TF,but if the 1st timer 5 wins you are out if 5 is TF.If 1 is TF it's a raced runner and you will be in even if 5 wins and 1 runs 2nd.

I'm not saying that something untoward did happen here,but I am saying I observed a R500 change in the pool just before the finish.

If the change had been R20 000 it wouldn't have caught my eye,as that would simply be the pool update after international money came in,but R500 change is suspicious IMO.

Very interesting ?
Have you ever thought that there is a tote unit that doesn't switch off and a clever insider is placing the bet at that stage when he can see that the front runner wont loose,this can be done by one of the operators (now why am I saying that 1st hand experience )
this has happened to me,
I also know that not all units switch off when the race starts,

I was also friendly with one of the engineers at a later stage and asked him about it and he said yes it happens some times but not that often [ ha ha ]

If this is still happening then that is why you have the change in pay out.
and strangely from the commends made above it never seems the be for the better, MMM I would like this to be investigated

moose wrote: Very interesting ?
Have you ever thought that there is a tote unit that doesn't switch off and a clever insider is placing the bet at that stage when he can see that the front runner wont loose,this can be done by one of the operators (now why am I saying that 1st hand experience )
this has happened to me,
I also know that not all units switch off when the race starts,

I was also friendly with one of the engineers at a later stage and asked him about it and he said yes it happens some times but not that often [ ha ha ]

If this is still happening then that is why you have the change in pay out.
and strangely from the commends made above it never seems the be for the better, MMM I would like this to be investigated

All tote machines in branches are open for a period into the race .................the theory is it is to cancel mistake tickets ,but who knows!!!!!!! (my mate runs a Tab at his bar)

That US guy that worked for the tote was adding winning tickets for himself,and would still be doing it today but he got greedy and got caught trying to be the only winner of the P6 on breeders cup day!.............we use that system!

What we need is about screen shots of 10 co-mingled races one taken 2 min before the off and then the final one! It shouldn't be too difficult to see any patterns and draw some probable conclusions.