Transparency - Paul Lafferty initiative

Touche, Englander !

As a very open owner about all his horses and their chances I sometimes get the feeling punters want to get spoon fed all the time. Don every Tom , Dick and Harry can be a punter with R10 in his pocket BUT not every TOM, DICK OR HARRY can be an owner. Firstly where does the increase in turnover/punting go into prise money ? Not in racing in SA. Expenses are through the roof and prise money is down the tubes. Yet for one race in a horses career you still want to be spoon fed........FFS come on. Watch the betting !! Boet after owning more than 100 horses in my life I can count on one hand the first time winners I have had and I have owned good horses. Secondly when it comes to barrier trials I dont want my horse possibly injuring itself for the sake of punter Tom, Dick or Harry to have a bet. Thirdly, there are not many trainer that train their horses to win first time out. If you are a serious punter you will know which stables are that way inclined and will again watch the betting.
Now when it comes to comeback runs barrier trials can be a good thing.........rather like the July gallops, shit I have never missed the winner in the last 35 years because of these gallops. BS
I am all for my trainer giving his opinion on my horses chances to the public, as he does with every horse that runs out of his stable. To say my horse is a nice horse, needs further, going to be green.........wtf ever I really dont give a rats arse.........you know why ? Because 99% of trainers have no clue how a first timer will perform under race conditions.
Lastly, as an owner, I have made a point of being as open as possible to anyone that asks me for information about my horses, as Im not a big punter, strangely only a few ever listen, why ? Well to be honest Im not a frikken soothsayer and dont have a crystal ball.
ITS called GAMBLING.......

Well said Neigh and thanks again for what you share about your horses
You don't owe anybody anything so it say's a lot about your character

Englander wrote: Cheers, Chris. That is a slightly different argument for me, if true (and in plenty cases it undoubtedly is) and the info on every "good thing" really is already out there, then they really can have no opposition to this proposal.

Excepting for the owners who won't be happy that their investments are not taken seriously and they are not given first bite at the cherry.....no matter how/when/where or by whom gets the information out there.

Just like I mentioned, no amicable resolution here.

I will say, good for GC for trying to be pro-active. It is a nice change to see an operator doing something that could make the punters a little more at ease....will it help or work long term, I have my doubts but let us wait and see!

Now that I have had my rant. Strangely my first time winners I have had were all backed and not by me. Needless to say Im not with those trainers anymore.

Neigh, let me say to start with, I have a lot of time for you and, generally speaking, a lot of time for your posts and, in saying that, I am certainly not insinuating any different here. And I am always grateful to anyone who provides us punters with honest information about their horses so thanks are due also.
Let me clarify my personal standpoint a little if I may. I enjoy a punt, I like a gamble, I love pitting my wits against a horse racing card and finding a winner, especially an idiot winner. The last thing I want is to be spoon fed or the game is gone. No fun at all for me in that scenario and I would wave it goodbye.
What I do want to know though is if a horse is ready to race. I am pretty sure last year in an interview Justin Snaith said he sometimes uses a race as a gallop for a horse, he even said it is probably unfair on the punter but that's the way it is. (I apologise to JS if I misquote). I am sure he is not the only trainer who has done this. JS is right though, it is unfair to the punter. It isn't gambling Neigh, it is guessing which horses are ready to run and which are having a gallop. That is simply wrong any which way you look at it. Furthermore, not everyone has the time to know which trainers send out their first timers ready to run and which don't, I would wager most don't. I don't and I've been betting on SA races for 5 years. Maybe I should know but I often spend between 4 and 8 hours studying a card, I can't do/know everything. Anyone with less time than me, no chance! And this is not just about "serious punters", this is about anyone who wants to have a punt and possibly bringing more punters to the table.
I don't want a trainer to say their horse will win, I just want to know if the horse is race fit and/or if he thinks there is something which may affect the horse's performance. Is that seriously too much to ask? As I said above, why not give you owners a 2 hour opening to punt the horse if you so wish before that information for first timers is given to me, I really fail to see the issue there. And if the information is already out there, the comment will only be confirming what other people seemingly already know, which is of course no fault of the punter.
As I said Neigh, I do genuinely have an element of sympathy and understanding for owners with a decent first timer out. I am happy for you to have first crack at the price as a "consequence" etc. But, please don't deny me the right to know which horses are fit or have some "hidden" issue etc, is that really so unreasonable of me?

Well said Englander as normal a well constructed post.
At least it levels the playing fields for the form studier and I agree the owner should always have first bite at his first timer but that is only theory as we well know Neigh

Good punting

Like Easy, I dont think barrier trials will help the punter any better. However, whatever happened to the horses being weighed and their mass communicated at racemeetings? Although not quite appropriate for first timers and 2yo's, that for me, is far more value adding.

Englander and Paul Lafferty and Co.

Everyone is going on about the well being of a 1st timer. What about the well being of a 104 rated horse that has been rested for 94 days , WHY every single season we are exposed to horses that CAN and HAVE performed at a certain level YET cannot be brought back at that level. WHY do we have to have "prep" races where the PUNTER knows nothing about the CURRENT well being of the runners. Some examples

www.formgrids.com/subscriber/fgRaceCardG...-17,Turffontein,7,ZA

I personally as an owner and a punter think the FAR greater crime of lack of information is on horses returning to the track and NOT 1st timers.

Also FAR FAR greater damage to the perception of racing can and is done by a 7/10 shot running no where in the middle leg of the jackpot/pa and pick 6 as opposed to race 1

Decisions have been made by GC (Laffs initiative).....Which, if any owners were consulted in this matter, where was it tabled ? Again owners have no say in matters that directly affect them like, (yes Don entitlement) 1% of our stake taken off. Owners just kak and betaal but we are ENTITLED.......to what ? We are entitled to own and race horses for the punter's benefit ?The whole industry is "entitled" on the back of the owner yet we are last in line for any of this "entitlement"........makes sense !?
England, again how many punters punt on first timers ? Seriously ? I dont but there are owners that do. Why take it away from them ? Again watch the betting.
The whole thing for me is the timing of this info, owner getting the first bite of the cherry, end result for the future is prices will be put up after comments have been made by trainers. Owners again will be snide.
IMHO there are too many "non functional people" involved in decision making in our industry who have little or no bearing directly to the industry except for gaining off the back of the owners horses. (call it false entitlement if you like)

Another thing , how many trainers know their horses enough to be correct with the info they provide their owners?

How many times has a trainer told you to have a strike, for the horse to finish 4th or 5th and then phone to say "what a great run, next time"?

easy wrote: Englander and Paul Lafferty and Co.

Everyone is going on about the well being of a 1st timer. What about the well being of a 104 rated horse that has been rested for 94 days , WHY every single season we are exposed to horses that CAN and HAVE performed at a certain level YET cannot be brought back at that level. WHY do we have to have "prep" races where the PUNTER knows nothing about the CURRENT well being of the runners. Some examples

www.formgrids.com/subscriber/fgRaceCardG...-17,Turffontein,7,ZA

I personally as an owner and a punter think the FAR greater crime of lack of information is on horses returning to the track and NOT 1st timers.

Also FAR FAR greater damage to the perception of racing can and is done by a 7/10 shot running no where in the middle leg of the jackpot/pa and pick 6 as opposed to race 1

It's going to snow - I agree with easy