RA Racint Trust

Can I ask the Stock followers on the site to discuss something that is on my mind , as I have said before I don’t really follow stocks and all of that.

We have a RA Racing trust that holds 35% of Phumalela . Now part of the balance of ownership is the Government Pension Fund. We all know that there has been a huge out cry just on the side of the shares held in Steinhoff that the Fund lost. With crinimal charges being laid against MJ and other board members .

If I understood user The Missing link the other day , he was predicting or questioning , that the Phumelela stock would drop below R17.00 which has not happened . Trading this morning at R17.48
Therefore after all of this it opened on Monday at R17.50 and is now R 17.48. So no change . The Missing Link also mentioned that the stock was being propped up and worked out that they needed R42 Million Rand to keep things calm. They had their AGM ON Tuesday we all expected some kind of reaction , but none came through, This did not really surprise me as they are lucky to get a quota at the meeting to hold one. So once again no change.
So this leaves me with these thoughts , which I may be way off the therefore asking , they do not want eyes on Phumelela – No one is panicking when then the world is.
What is the possiblility that since we have no idea what is happening with he RA Racing Trust with no Financial Statements , No AGMs or other notices , is it not that Larry and the board are using the funds of the Trust to buy shares in Phumalela . Nobody would know , nobody could question them as we have no proof ?

This would surely be illegal , a trust account is a trust account and therefore should this be done then it would be a criminal act and the board and CEO of the RA are vanarable to jail time.
Just trying to understand as we have some very solid heads on this forum.

"they do not want eyes on Phumelela"
"this be done then it would be a criminal act"

It looks like you live in a world where if you spit on the ground a conspiracy tree grows. Do you have hatred in your heart?

A trust is controlled by a trust document, and a panel of people who interpret that document to follow it's stated purpose. It's a tight affair. Just like you I am ignorant of the particulars. But to assume criminal intent without a reason, just anger, is nuts.

The other day I asked why the Phumelela share price should tank as people suggested. Part of a share's value are the assets, income, risks and history. The dividend should return the normal so I wondered why Steinhoff should have an impact? I got a glib answer, yet so far they are plain wrong.

If those shares go down, then it's a buying opportunity because nothing fundamental to making money has changed. What exactly is the reason or reasoning to "panic"?

Speculation is fun, but facts are better. You seem to have none.

Volume Bid Offer Volume
1 8922 1700 1749 3000
2 4000 1631 1750 12702
3 5000 1630 1770 30000
4 1100 1551 1780 2410
5 1500 1001 1910 10502

The thing with Phumelela is that its a very illiquid stock. Over 80% of all shares are held by 10 persons/institutions, RA being the biggest holder. Above are the bids and offers in the market (the outer two columns are share amounts and the inner two columns are the bids/offers in cents). As you can see there aren't any big orders, so with a few hundred thousand rand you could buy shares to push the price up to R17.70 pretty easily but I can't see any massive buying in the near future. The problem is with the opposite, if you want to offload a few hundred thousand rands worth of shares you can push the share price to R16.30 and lower. There's also no market for Jooste to sell his 2.5million shares in the company which is why I said someone will have to buy them off market because there's just no way they can be offloaded on market. I just see a lot of downside potential and we haven't even spoken about the fundamental profitability issues the company will have going forward with Jooste pulling out of racing.

It's a tight affair. Mini Tycoon. don't you think Steinhoff was also 'a tight affair'?
:whistle: :whistle:

Until recently the RA HAD 105 Million invested in Unit Trusts.

It LIQUIDATED 100 Million to fund the purchase of Phumelela shares to assist there mates at Phumelela to pay for there acquisition of the stake in Supabets.

Seeing the undoubted influence Markus Madoff has in both Phumelela and the RA, should we not be enquiring whether the RA had any exposure to Steinhoff?

Don wrote: It's a tight affair. Mini Tycoon. don't you think Steinhoff was also 'a tight affair'?
:whistle: :whistle:

Mini Tycoon thanks for the responce . I do not have any facts true. I am just asking questions to learn how this all works. Dont think there is to much harm in that,

What I do have is that The Trust Board have not had a meeeting for years , we have requested from the RA the minutes of the last meeeting which they are in charge of .

They can not produce them . We have requested Audited financial statements - Which no one can give because no audit has been done.

This money belongs to Racing SA , everyone from Punter to CEO , no harm in asking for some type of transparancy. But one day when you open the cupboard - I just jhope all the goods are in the cupboard and its not empty .

35 % is a lot of money and the future of horse racing will depend on it, this so that your children will be able to watch a Horse race in SA.

Don wrote: It's a tight affair. Mini Tycoon. don't you think Steinhoff was also 'a tight affair'?
:whistle: :whistle:

I meant they don't have that much discretion. The structure in place was the deal between racing, the government and Phumelela at incorporation and was designed in the interest of "public" money. Steinhoff was their investors'/private money which can do crazy things in pursuit of wealth. What do you mean?

Warren Laird wrote:

Don wrote: It's a tight affair. Mini Tycoon. don't you think Steinhoff was also 'a tight affair'?
:whistle: :whistle:

Mini Tycoon thanks for the responce . I do not have any facts true. I am just asking questions to learn how this all works. Dont think there is to much harm in that,

What I do have is that The Trust Board have not had a meeeting for years , we have requested from the RA the minutes of the last meeeting which they are in charge of .

They can not produce them . We have requested Audited financial statements - Which no one can give because no audit has been done.

This money belongs to Racing SA , everyone from Punter to CEO , no harm in asking for some type of transparancy. But one day when you open the cupboard - I just jhope all the goods are in the cupboard and its not empty .

35 % is a lot of money and the future of horse racing will depend on it, this so that your children will be able to watch a Horse race in SA.

Okay. I have a question too. To whom are they accountable, to whom do they report, and when? I hope it's not just when or if they feel like it. I have been involved in several areas of racing, but I haven't crossed paths with the RA as it happens. Perhaps a member would tell us what their association's agreement is with their members? Does anyone remember the original conditions?

Turf Talk: Can you explain the functions of the Racing Trust?

Wainstein: The quid pro quo for the handing over of assets, totes, facilities etc. was put in place. Racing Trust is a major shareholding in PGL and derives its income solely from the share dividends from this Listed Company, declared every year. Of this amount, 80% goes into the Stakes Pot and 20% is kept to fund certain causes. The Trust’s 80% contribution to the Stakes Pot this year amounts to approximately R17,3-million.

Ok so then when the RA give the additional R20k to members only , do they take the money from the R17 Million Racing Trust or gtom the RA . Because that was not the agreement. You cant add it to or included it it as Certain Causes .

The persons elected by the board to represent the RA on the
Trust are:
Mark Currie
Chris Gerber (Chairman)
Louis du Preez
Gideon Sam represents SASCOC on the Trust.
There are currently three vacancies, two of which are Racing
Association appointees and one is a SASCOC appointee.


5.1Donation – National Horse Trust
In the year under review, donations of R363 000 were made
to the National Horse Trust’s Highveld Horse Care Unit, which
looks after the Gauteng and Free State regions. A further
R132 000 was set aside for the East Cape region.
5.2 Donation – Trainers’ Benevolent Fund
An annual contribution amounting to R437 186 was made to
the Trainers’ Benevolent Fund which includes Gauteng and
East Cape Regions.

There is very little information to be had on the Trust. I should know, I have tried.

There is some information listed in some of the old Racing Fact Books. This extract, from the 2010/2011 copy, reads:-

The Thoroughbred Horseracing Trust

"The Thoroughbred Horseracing Trust (The Racing Trust) is an independent, non-aligned and transparent organisation created in 1988 by The Racing Association and the National Sports Council (now the South African Sports Confederation & Olympic Committee). The principal object of the Trust is to promote the interests of all persons interested in, and affected by, the sport in South Africa, with a view to the long term viability of the sport. It is particularly concerned with transformation and is charged with initiating, supporting and encouraging the participation of persons who have been historically disadvantaged and discriminated against. The Racing Trust also provides supplementary stakes for horse racing events."

"The Racing Trust currently totally supports the Gauteng Jockeys' Academy, the Work Riders' Training Programme and race series and a new venture training young men to become farriers. It also contributes towards supporting the Grooms' School at Randjiesfontein, the Equine Research Centre at Onderstepoort and the informal racing sectors of the Eastern and Northern Capes."

In my experience (and it is only my personal experience), they are not very transparent at all. While I am naturally circumspect about committees that represent the interests (and in this case funds) of large groups of people, it makes me very uncomfortable that they have (certainly in my dealings with them) refused to supply any information on what they do and how they do it. Any requests for information have received short shrift. I am also uncomfortable with the idea that the Racing Trust supports informal racing. It is a personal gripe, but why are we helping an informal and unregulated sector, particularly one which throws up a continuous string of welfare concerns, when there is a need for so much to be done on our own doorstep?

During the corporatisation process, the Racing Trust was formed and a Trust Deed drawn up.
The Trust was given a 35% stake in Phumelela (this shareholding has risen slightly and I think is currently 35.26% if I'm not mistaken). So on an annual basis, they get a big, fat dividends cheque and presumably divvy it out "to promote the interests of all persons interested in, and affected by, the sport in South Africa, with a view to the long term viability of the sport." Whatever that means when it's at home as they do not publish financials and no-one knows how much any / all of these organisations do or don't receive, or indeed, how the recipients apply the money.

It seems there have been changes to the Trust Deed over the years, but there seems little information on what these changes were and how they might affect things.

Then there is the rather nebulous 'stakes agreement' governed / negotiated by the RA with (presumably) the Operator. Again, this seems to be a top secret document which no-one seems to want to publish or share anywhere, despite repeated claims that this document is available. If anyone would like to test the theory and request a copy, please feel free to share it here. The Stakes Agreement is supposed to govern the arrangement by which the stakes pot is decided and exactly who needs to contribute what. Which to my mind, makes it quite an important document and one that should be of interest to every person who owns even a tailhair in a horse anywhere in the country. But again, I appear to be in the minority here.

Either way, getting back to the job at hand. The Racing Trust consists of 7 Trustees. The Racing Association gets to nominate 5 of those Trustees and the other two are comprised of representatives of SASCOC. Since the dawn of time - or at least the Trust - The SASCOC representatives have comprised Gideon Sam and Vinesh Maharaj (who also have holdings in Phumelela via a company called Gride Investments). The other Trustees do seem to have limits set on their terms of tenure and have changed over from time to time. Changes are not usually disseminated, and one has to go through RA Annual Reports to find out the Racing Trust 'team' for every year.

In 2014, the following notification was sent out ( www.sportingpost.co.za/2014/08/racing-trust-changes/ ) documenting that the Trust was changing from:-

Johan Roodt (Chairman)
Mary Slack
Michael Leaf
Markus Jooste
Chris van Niekerk
Gideon Sam
Vinesh Maharaj

To

Johann du Plessis (Chairman)
Peter de Beyer
Chris Gerber
Mark Currie
Brian Finch
Gideon Sam
Vinesh Maharaj

Since then, the make-up of the group has changed around quite a lot and there now seems to be some odd arrangement of rotating the chair - not sure how this works exactly. Out of interest, at the time that Johann du Plessis (Steinhoff / Klawervlei) was not only voted onto the Trust, but sommer given the Chair, he also had designs on the NHA Chair, but there was a conflict of interest as he already held the Chair at the Racing Trust and the NHA got Andy O' Connor instead.

How the RA fits in is that not only does the RA nominate 5 Trustees to the board, the RA also somehow administers the affairs of the Trust. Which leads us back to Mr Wainstein.

I am quite interested in Warren's figures and in particular the 5.2 Donation to the Trainers' Benevolent Fund as the NHA scrapped that fund a few years ago (see www.sportingpost.co.za/2016/07/benevolent-fund-nha-responds/ ), so Warren - perhaps you could tell us which report you got those figures from and what the date was? Unless of course this refers to a Benevolent Fund that is different to the National Benevolent Fund which got scrapped.

Also, other than the mention in the RA Annual Report, there seems to be little communication from the Trust, so as to who they report / are answerable to - your guess is as good as mine. A few years ago, I was instructed to do a piece on Mr du Plessis and after months of chasing, he eventually directed me to their 'PRO person'. I did as instructed, only to be told 'we don't do PRO' :blink:

Over the Air wrote: Until recently the RA HAD 105 Million invested in Unit Trusts.

It LIQUIDATED 100 Million to fund the purchase of Phumelela shares to assist there mates at Phumelela to pay for there acquisition of the stake in Supabets.

Seeing the undoubted influence Markus Madoff has in both Phumelela and the RA, should we not be enquiring whether the RA had any exposure to Steinhoff?

......does anyone know the rationale for the acquisition of Supabets anyway.....they already had Betting World....is Supabets still a separate brand and catering for a different betting market like that of WSB(big in Soccer bets).....but have TAB tote terminals at certain branches....do Supabets have these tote terminals in their shops....where are these shops..... :huh: