CHARL PRETORIUS APOLOGISES
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CHARL PRETORIUS APOLOGISES
16 years 9 months ago
FOLLOWING allegations of hate speech and a complaint lodged against him at the SAHRC by Mr Hanif Majoo, freeracer founder Charl Pretorius renders a public apology.
THE following is a letter to Mr Hanif Manjoo and the SA Human Rights Commission drafted by Shepstone & Wylie Attorneys on behalf of Charl Pretorius, and reflecting his unconditional apology:
Dear Mr Manjoo,
COMPLAINT BY MR HANIF MANJOO AGAINST MR CHARL PRETORIUS
1. Mr Pretorius wishes to apologise unconditionally for the comments made in the course of the debate on the ABC (africanbettingclan) discussion forum. Mr Pretorius tenders his apology mindful of the following:
1.1. The comments made about you were unsubstantiated and hurtful, and violated your dignity specifically, and Black people generally.
1.2. In particular, but without limiting the scope of the apology, the statement that you are a “racist”, and the inference that you were a “terrorist or bomb planter” was entirely without foundation.
1.3. Mr Pretorius regrets in particular his comment that “blacks intensely dislike whites”, which he knows not to be universally true. He has also come to appreciate that this statement may have the effect of furthering racial prejudice and intolerance.
1.4. Mr Pretorius also appreciates that his comments about transformation in the racing industry, and particularly the statement that Black people in every sphere of South African society rely on “drummed-up power if they don’t get it handed to them on a plate” is political comment which is based on, and may even perpetuate, racial stereotypes.
1.5. Mr Pretorius recognises that the biting comments he made about “struggle heroes” may be seen to denigrate the role of those true heroes who fought apartheid.
1.6. Mr Pretorius has strongly held views about the problems of crime and the living conditions in South Africa, and is critical of the government’s response to these matters. He recognises, however, that the manner in which he expressed these views was excessive and could be interpreted as having a racial undertone, and that it may therefore have the effect of encouraging intolerance and racial discord.
2. Although he believes that the central drift of his letter was fair comment, he appreciates that the English skills of the Zimbabwean broadcasters (of whom most are second or third language English speakers) is intertwined with their race and social origin. As such he admits that his attack (and his comment that their verbal abilities were that of “a jar of bottled prunes”) could have been perceived as having a racial overtone. He did not intend such an overtone, and he apologises for this – and for any hurt that it may have caused – unconditionally.
3. His comment that the commentator in question was a “devil-spawned alien with an unpronounceable name” was insensitive and thoughtless, and violated the dignity of Zimbabweans and other foreigners. He admits that in a climate of xenophobia, such a statement was irresponsible and could encourage ill-feeling towards foreign nationals.
4. Mr Pretorius is sincerely apologetic for any harm that you may have suffered as a result of his comments, and hopes that you will accept his sincere apology in the manner in which it is intended.
THE following is a letter to Mr Hanif Manjoo and the SA Human Rights Commission drafted by Shepstone & Wylie Attorneys on behalf of Charl Pretorius, and reflecting his unconditional apology:
Dear Mr Manjoo,
COMPLAINT BY MR HANIF MANJOO AGAINST MR CHARL PRETORIUS
1. Mr Pretorius wishes to apologise unconditionally for the comments made in the course of the debate on the ABC (africanbettingclan) discussion forum. Mr Pretorius tenders his apology mindful of the following:
1.1. The comments made about you were unsubstantiated and hurtful, and violated your dignity specifically, and Black people generally.
1.2. In particular, but without limiting the scope of the apology, the statement that you are a “racist”, and the inference that you were a “terrorist or bomb planter” was entirely without foundation.
1.3. Mr Pretorius regrets in particular his comment that “blacks intensely dislike whites”, which he knows not to be universally true. He has also come to appreciate that this statement may have the effect of furthering racial prejudice and intolerance.
1.4. Mr Pretorius also appreciates that his comments about transformation in the racing industry, and particularly the statement that Black people in every sphere of South African society rely on “drummed-up power if they don’t get it handed to them on a plate” is political comment which is based on, and may even perpetuate, racial stereotypes.
1.5. Mr Pretorius recognises that the biting comments he made about “struggle heroes” may be seen to denigrate the role of those true heroes who fought apartheid.
1.6. Mr Pretorius has strongly held views about the problems of crime and the living conditions in South Africa, and is critical of the government’s response to these matters. He recognises, however, that the manner in which he expressed these views was excessive and could be interpreted as having a racial undertone, and that it may therefore have the effect of encouraging intolerance and racial discord.
2. Although he believes that the central drift of his letter was fair comment, he appreciates that the English skills of the Zimbabwean broadcasters (of whom most are second or third language English speakers) is intertwined with their race and social origin. As such he admits that his attack (and his comment that their verbal abilities were that of “a jar of bottled prunes”) could have been perceived as having a racial overtone. He did not intend such an overtone, and he apologises for this – and for any hurt that it may have caused – unconditionally.
3. His comment that the commentator in question was a “devil-spawned alien with an unpronounceable name” was insensitive and thoughtless, and violated the dignity of Zimbabweans and other foreigners. He admits that in a climate of xenophobia, such a statement was irresponsible and could encourage ill-feeling towards foreign nationals.
4. Mr Pretorius is sincerely apologetic for any harm that you may have suffered as a result of his comments, and hopes that you will accept his sincere apology in the manner in which it is intended.
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Re: Re: CHARL PRETORIUS APOLOGISES
16 years 9 months ago
Charl has been making statements which he admits may have the effect of furthering racial prejudice and intolerance and have the effect of encouraging intolerance and racial discord. He obviously had no choice except to publish an apology. That elastic concept known as time will tell us whether charl is genuine. I am not holding my breath. It is easier to apologise with sincerety than to face court cases and high profile public criticizm. What Charl did must not be forgotten and he should be reminded of it every day to ensure his sincerity. He has done wrong. Well done to this Manjoo fellow for taking Charl to task. His luck ran out. I look forward to seeing what the advertisers who support him do. The Sunday times termination of Bullards services is an example of pressure exerted when people perceive there to be hate speech. Anyone who is guilty of hate speech with intention to cause harm will not have my support.
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- Barry Irwin
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Re: Re: CHARL PRETORIUS APOLOGISES
16 years 9 months ago
Let's hope for sake of Charl's mental health and his pocket book that he can internalize and not just intellectualize this lesson. He is too good a guy to be carrying on like this!
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Re: Re: CHARL PRETORIUS APOLOGISES
16 years 9 months ago
Osgood, nice to put the knife in, isnt it? Do it every day, wont you? Remind me every day that I appear to be the one that started global warming. Perhaps, if you persist, my advertisters will withdraw one by one and you will feel sooo gooood!! Will you have a party? Will you announce to all here at ABC that you made a correct prediction? Will you announce your name so they, and I, can shower you with accolades when the time is right?
I love it when people who dont know me from a bar of soap pass judgements and shiver with delight when I am not on the winning side. Dont underrate me, asswipe. I put things behind me and go foward in life. And so do the people who afvertise with me. And not you, or anyone else, will sink freeracer as easy as you think you will.
I love it when people who dont know me from a bar of soap pass judgements and shiver with delight when I am not on the winning side. Dont underrate me, asswipe. I put things behind me and go foward in life. And so do the people who afvertise with me. And not you, or anyone else, will sink freeracer as easy as you think you will.
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- krishy
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Re: Re: CHARL PRETORIUS APOLOGISES
16 years 9 months ago
I like your comments osgood, u call a spade a spade, 100%
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- Mikedoubleu
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Re: Re: CHARL PRETORIUS APOLOGISES
16 years 9 months ago
Krishy - why do you feel justified to poke a brainless comment into a thread for absolutely no reason at all.
You obviously feel the need to involve yourself in the good old fashioned activity of ' hunting with wolves ' as when it suits you, you switch sides constantly. On the one hand you pronounce to the world that you feel sorry for Charl, even publicly state that you're off to Freeracer when this place is quiet, but change colours to offer support to a poster you probably don't even know. Why ? Do you feel that you need to accomodate everyone for your own popularity ?
Osgood's comments are duly noted as someone who has a real problem with the way Charl conducts himself and I respect them - that's what opinions on this forum are about, but not for the benefit of turncoats.
You obviously feel the need to involve yourself in the good old fashioned activity of ' hunting with wolves ' as when it suits you, you switch sides constantly. On the one hand you pronounce to the world that you feel sorry for Charl, even publicly state that you're off to Freeracer when this place is quiet, but change colours to offer support to a poster you probably don't even know. Why ? Do you feel that you need to accomodate everyone for your own popularity ?
Osgood's comments are duly noted as someone who has a real problem with the way Charl conducts himself and I respect them - that's what opinions on this forum are about, but not for the benefit of turncoats.
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Re: Re: CHARL PRETORIUS APOLOGISES
16 years 9 months ago
Mike, i dont think my comments are brainless. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong in saying that u like someones comments. It is a free world out there and i can post whatever and wherever i like. Is there a rule or restriction that i prevents me from posting on another website if the other one is quiet. Yes, i admit feeling sorry for Charl, this does not mean that i must agree with what he has done or said.
I am a one man band and i am not on anyone side, so i dont have to change sides. The only side i am on is "chelsea".
As far as my popularity goes mate, i have enough of friends, both male and female , so i dont need this forum or any other forum for popularity.
Mike, i have not seen much of that name recently, where have u been lost, or are u coming out of the closet.
On which side of the fence are u Mike ???
I am a one man band and i am not on anyone side, so i dont have to change sides. The only side i am on is "chelsea".
As far as my popularity goes mate, i have enough of friends, both male and female , so i dont need this forum or any other forum for popularity.
Mike, i have not seen much of that name recently, where have u been lost, or are u coming out of the closet.
On which side of the fence are u Mike ???
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Re: Re: CHARL PRETORIUS APOLOGISES
16 years 9 months ago
Lets us remind ourselves of some of the things said by Charl on his website in the past few months:-
" freeracer, on Sunday, 22 June, is pleased to sound the death knell for the flea-ridden cyberspace rats known as africanbettingclan.com. Libellous and polluted with poisonous, self-serving rubbish, freeracer now cuts the malignant tumour known as abc from South Africa’s racing body and flushes it down the toilet like a messy, Thai-food shit. To be forgotten in a hurry!"
AND
"Now, apart from the immediate legal action that will be taken against africanbettingclan, Chris Sturdy in person and Mike Nunes, freeracer solemnly declares africanbettingclan dead. Gone. Buried. Not even to be found on the trash-heap of society because in reality they are delusional bottom-feeders, lower than shark-shit and not worthy of the air that normal people breathe."
AND
"Then they resorted to South Africa’s collective soft spot - the race issue - by calling up an early 2007 row between myself and politically correct members of ABC concerning businessman Richard Maponya in which I was accused of racism, although constant threats to call me before the SA Human Rights Commission never materialized. The reason? My postings aimed at Maponya may have been somewhat crude, but they certainly weren’t “racist’’.
However, as in the case with freeracer’s new columnist David Bullard, once “racism’’ is thrown against your head – the easiest and most popular thing to do in South Africa when you’re in a corner and there is nothing else to resort to – the connotation sticks.
The confidence, you see, came from ABC’s knowing that I, with my not-so-collected temper and “crafty pen’’ would at some stage react to their own constant and unnecessary “digs’’ at me – they set me up for a fall, and I stepped blind-eyed right into their trap.
What landed on the desks of Phumelela Board members and CEO David Attenborough on Tuesday morning was a carefully constructed and extensive docket of written “evidence’’ against me – postings dating back to 2007 – and containing a few ABC-enticed, swearword-ridden outbursts of anger. They dangled the carrot many times over the last year, I grabbed it and then they landed what a friend described as a well-planned and expertly executed “sucker punch’’."
AND
"“Racism’’ was the first thing mentioned in Sturdy’s docu-drama, along with accusations of “defamatory behaviour, insulting suggestions, harassment and abuse’’. Shame, ABC, pretending to be scared! And then, Sturdy called on Phumelela to “take action’’ against me.
While Sturdy’s wily composition, no doubt checked and sanctioned by Advocate Maselle and Mr Kyriacou, is utterly venomous hogwash constructed to nail me to the wall, the Phumelela top brass reacted in the way ABC expected them to react. An instruction for immediate action was given to David Attenborough, who summoned me to his office on Thursday.'
AND
"David explained that, “it doesn’t matter if ABC insulted your mother, that is not the point’’ – and that the company’s issue was implicitly with my use of horrendous swear words to attack ABC on a few occasions. Phumelela could never condone such foul language by someone who appears on one of their flagship television shows and studio discussions. Of course, Sturdy’s tear-jerking pleas for protection against this “racist’’ didn’t exactly help my case either."
looking at what charl has previously published and no matter what Charl's lawyers wrote for him, it appears that he could not have been earnest and remorseful about hate speech, his racial outbursts and attitude when he was taken to task by Pumelela and the Human Rights comision.You be the judge.
I am reminding Charl that he is not above the law and conducting himself in such a fashion is unbecoming of a supposed top journalist. Charls prejudices are there for all to see. No-one wants to see his downfall - that would be becoming someone like him.See above what he states about ABC. Charl has to tow the line. If he is not prepared to do so, he must be censured.
What perturbs me is that too many people have short memories. Look at what he says about ABC and people who post on it. Think hard as to the type of person you are and who you support.
" freeracer, on Sunday, 22 June, is pleased to sound the death knell for the flea-ridden cyberspace rats known as africanbettingclan.com. Libellous and polluted with poisonous, self-serving rubbish, freeracer now cuts the malignant tumour known as abc from South Africa’s racing body and flushes it down the toilet like a messy, Thai-food shit. To be forgotten in a hurry!"
AND
"Now, apart from the immediate legal action that will be taken against africanbettingclan, Chris Sturdy in person and Mike Nunes, freeracer solemnly declares africanbettingclan dead. Gone. Buried. Not even to be found on the trash-heap of society because in reality they are delusional bottom-feeders, lower than shark-shit and not worthy of the air that normal people breathe."
AND
"Then they resorted to South Africa’s collective soft spot - the race issue - by calling up an early 2007 row between myself and politically correct members of ABC concerning businessman Richard Maponya in which I was accused of racism, although constant threats to call me before the SA Human Rights Commission never materialized. The reason? My postings aimed at Maponya may have been somewhat crude, but they certainly weren’t “racist’’.
However, as in the case with freeracer’s new columnist David Bullard, once “racism’’ is thrown against your head – the easiest and most popular thing to do in South Africa when you’re in a corner and there is nothing else to resort to – the connotation sticks.
The confidence, you see, came from ABC’s knowing that I, with my not-so-collected temper and “crafty pen’’ would at some stage react to their own constant and unnecessary “digs’’ at me – they set me up for a fall, and I stepped blind-eyed right into their trap.
What landed on the desks of Phumelela Board members and CEO David Attenborough on Tuesday morning was a carefully constructed and extensive docket of written “evidence’’ against me – postings dating back to 2007 – and containing a few ABC-enticed, swearword-ridden outbursts of anger. They dangled the carrot many times over the last year, I grabbed it and then they landed what a friend described as a well-planned and expertly executed “sucker punch’’."
AND
"“Racism’’ was the first thing mentioned in Sturdy’s docu-drama, along with accusations of “defamatory behaviour, insulting suggestions, harassment and abuse’’. Shame, ABC, pretending to be scared! And then, Sturdy called on Phumelela to “take action’’ against me.
While Sturdy’s wily composition, no doubt checked and sanctioned by Advocate Maselle and Mr Kyriacou, is utterly venomous hogwash constructed to nail me to the wall, the Phumelela top brass reacted in the way ABC expected them to react. An instruction for immediate action was given to David Attenborough, who summoned me to his office on Thursday.'
AND
"David explained that, “it doesn’t matter if ABC insulted your mother, that is not the point’’ – and that the company’s issue was implicitly with my use of horrendous swear words to attack ABC on a few occasions. Phumelela could never condone such foul language by someone who appears on one of their flagship television shows and studio discussions. Of course, Sturdy’s tear-jerking pleas for protection against this “racist’’ didn’t exactly help my case either."
looking at what charl has previously published and no matter what Charl's lawyers wrote for him, it appears that he could not have been earnest and remorseful about hate speech, his racial outbursts and attitude when he was taken to task by Pumelela and the Human Rights comision.You be the judge.
I am reminding Charl that he is not above the law and conducting himself in such a fashion is unbecoming of a supposed top journalist. Charls prejudices are there for all to see. No-one wants to see his downfall - that would be becoming someone like him.See above what he states about ABC. Charl has to tow the line. If he is not prepared to do so, he must be censured.
What perturbs me is that too many people have short memories. Look at what he says about ABC and people who post on it. Think hard as to the type of person you are and who you support.
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- Alcaponee
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Re: Re: CHARL PRETORIUS APOLOGISES
16 years 9 months ago
I respect your opinions on the above topic OG but I think its time to put this issue to rest. I personally dont post on the freeracer site because I consider myself a clansman as opposed to a Freeracer. I am a creature of habit. I was welcomed onto this site by all and will remain loyal to this site.
I think Charl has a brilliant site. You can see that a lot of hard work has gone into it and one has to give the man credit for that.
Competition between sites is healthy - mudslinging is not. Like freedomn of speech we have freedom of choice to read what we want to. If one does not like Charl for whatever reason then dont read the site. Its your choice.
I see the Clansman did not react to posts regarding the Freeracer syndicates poor performance, but rather chose to console members of the syndicate by saying that their fortunes will turn. This is what we should be about (JWB vs First Watch}.
We all love the same thing dont we? Lets move on and focus on the game we love.
I think Charl has a brilliant site. You can see that a lot of hard work has gone into it and one has to give the man credit for that.
Competition between sites is healthy - mudslinging is not. Like freedomn of speech we have freedom of choice to read what we want to. If one does not like Charl for whatever reason then dont read the site. Its your choice.
I see the Clansman did not react to posts regarding the Freeracer syndicates poor performance, but rather chose to console members of the syndicate by saying that their fortunes will turn. This is what we should be about (JWB vs First Watch}.
We all love the same thing dont we? Lets move on and focus on the game we love.
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