What have we done to South African Racing?

Ok Bob, its a perception but i and many others have seen marked drops in dividends when payout time arrives. So the next question is who benefits? Not the punter!

Vin post=891119 userid=18076It would be great if there was clarity on how the Tote determines the favorite for races in terms of scratched horses. Too often we see joint favs at the close and then only 1 used regarding scratchings. 

It muddles things even more when HB (Punters challenge) has a different fav to the tote, especially when both horses closed as joint favs. 

.......firstly there can't be joint fav's on the tote.....as the decimal fractions beyond what we can see displayed can separate them 99% of the time... and should they be by chance be the same then their place dividends are extrapolated similarly.....however HB is not the tote and their fav is the horse with  the shortest starting price in decimal odds....after all it is their completion and their rules and has nothing to do with the tote..... 

I dont have much interest in SA racing anymore, too much agro, but whenever I look at results & TAB payouts, it seems to me that Whatever wins or is placed & exotics, the TAB declared dividends are much lower than ever. Maybe its due to the smaller pools but TAB value is getting worse all the time.

the good wrote:

Ok Bob, its a perception but i and many others have seen marked drops in dividends when payout time arrives. So the next question is who benefits? Not the punter!

If the punter can roughly double check the figures, it satisfies their curiosity...however, when the race closes and the figures change (almost as if someone is laying off after the jump) Transparency is what is required. As said by most above. It is perception, but we live in a country where a lot of our perception has become fact, so we are naturally suspicious. 

....when pools become much smaller the fluctuations then become so much more erratic....it is not that the bets are being placed after the jump......but bets being cancelled after the jump.....mingling with giant pools like Hong Kong no problem....but check the major swings in Selangor.....yikes.....and soon we will be in that same boat....

Twelve o clock High race 3 was paying R3.60 after the jump and Muzi was on the tote favourite.The pools were closed ,after 200 metres I checked again and Twelve o clock High was paying R2.90 tote favourite.I will never understand this 

If the pools can be opened when there is a false start, the pools can be opened to add in winning combinations after a race has ended hence a change in the dividends between "Closed" and "Closed" and "Paying"...I guess someone approves the opening of pools when there is a false start so there should be an audit trail but it won't be the first time that things slip past the eye of persons entrusted with being vigilant...thus allowing pools to be opened after results are known but before being declared...and the creation of the phantom Aus punter to explain away the lower dividends...

This was a message received the last time I asked about this

" The tote system's calculations are independently tested by certified gaming labs and verified by gambling boards. Internal audits are also conducted to ensure the accuracy of payouts. Changes in odds during the final 100 or 200 metres occur as the system completes its final cycle, incorporating data from all commingling partners."

There was a huge tote payout board at Kenilworth on the other side of the track near the finish line facing the stands. You would mostly back on the tote in those days as there was no internet betting and most bookies operated out of Long Street in the city centre. So if at the course you would anxiously watch the board and hope that the horse that you backed stayed at around what it was when you had your bet (no fixed odds on the tote) So when they jumped say your horse was paying 5 bucks but if you looked at the board 45 seconds after they jumped it would change r we other down or up. The excuse those days was that the computer had to adjust the payouts according to last second bets and it took time to do so Maybe it’s like that nowadays as nothing is instant. Remember the tote and the bookies are not there to make the punter rich. They are there to make as much profit out of the punter as possible. 

 

Bob Brogan wrote:

This was a message received the last time I asked about this

" The tote system's calculations are independently tested by certified gaming labs and verified by gambling boards. Internal audits are also conducted to ensure the accuracy of payouts. Changes in odds during the final 100 or 200 metres occur as the system completes its final cycle, incorporating data from all commingling partners."

Bob, this is a load of bs on another level.....

The insult here is that the average punter is an idiot.... let's take a scenario where a punter makes a phone call to a foreign jurisdiction (worst case scenario), and the punter must accept that there would be >50 second delay (assuming a sprint race on the tote) to received the voice transmission ...... tote data is transmitted on the same bandwidth.

Someone in the establishment is living in cukoo land... I don't buy this kak and would be prepared to avail myself to be humbled! Bring it on....

....when a race is closed ..... a punter cannot get a bet at a tote terminal or online......yet >50 seconds later the dividends continue to adjust and update...... IMHO everyone is entitled and justified to smell a rat...in the absence of a legitimate and plausible explanation. We currently live in an online realtime era. A delay of 1, 3 or 8 seconds may be palatable by the punter from the operator's excuses... not >50 seconds.

This crap has been going on for far too long and is not acceptable.... The operators should be offered a right of response to convice us that they have systems in place with the requisite integrity checks and controls.

@Bob, IMHO it would be a joke if one had to tally the number of horse races run in SA against the sample size of races sampled by the Gambling Boards for integrity checks! IMHO, the gambling boards offer no assurance nor comfort to the punter....these are public servants employed by boards that are not reputed for anything other than been inefficient.

Please enlighten us what is a "gambling lab"? I have never heard of this lot!
 

So i now have the replies i expected and the horse mentioned is a classic case.And this happens daily, especially whe a horse looks home at the 400m.
So my original question who is benefitting. My take is layers of the open bet and this happened in a light bulb moment when questioning the lack of will pays 1.1.2025 at Greyville. They have tote facilities? Think carefully about this!

Saint T wrote:

Bob Brogan wrote:

This was a message received the last time I asked about this

" The tote system's calculations are independently tested by certified gaming labs and verified by gambling boards. Internal audits are also conducted to ensure the accuracy of payouts. Changes in odds during the final 100 or 200 metres occur as the system completes its final cycle, incorporating data from all commingling partners."

Bob, this is a load of bs on another level.....

The insult here is that the average punter is an idiot.... let's take a scenario where a punter makes a phone call to a foreign jurisdiction (worst case scenario), and the punter must accept that there would be >50 second delay (assuming a sprint race on the tote) to received the voice transmission ...... tote data is transmitted on the same bandwidth.

Someone in the establishment is living in cukoo land... I don't buy this kak and would be prepared to avail myself to be humbled! Bring it on....

....when a race is closed ..... a punter cannot get a bet at a tote terminal or online......yet >50 seconds later the dividends continue to adjust and update...... IMHO everyone is entitled and justified to smell a rat...in the absence of a legitimate and plausible explanation. We currently live in an online realtime era. A delay of 1, 3 or 8 seconds may be palatable by the punter from the operator's excuses... not >50 seconds.

This crap has been going on for far too long and is not acceptable.... The operators should be offered a right of response to convice us that they have systems in place with the requisite integrity checks and controls.

@Bob, IMHO it would be a joke if one had to tally the number of horse races run in SA against the sample size of races sampled by the Gambling Boards for integrity checks! IMHO, the gambling boards offer no assurance nor comfort to the punter....these are public servants employed by boards that are not reputed for anything other than been inefficient.

Please enlighten us what is a "gambling lab"? I have never heard of this lot!



 

No disrespect to anyone.
But we are not known for our pious behaviour. Theft by the corporates ranks up there with organized crime (Spin doctors will be paid millions to hide this). The only thing that keeps most people honest is the fear of being exposed. Transparency and accountability. Not the current South African culture. The bigger the funds, the greater the theft.
Why don't we err on the side of caution...close the Tote on the off. NO after the start changes.