RA member expectations list

umlilo Wrote:

---

> @RA:
>
> Did Larry, Peter Naidoo and who else appear before
> Cde Buti Komphela, chairman of the parliamentary
> committee looking into the total lack of
> transformation within the horseracing industry?
>
> If so, who authorised them and on what mandate?
>
> Trust this will be answered.... swiftly!


If this is true WHO represented the punters?

RA Wrote:

---

> I met with Vee this morning:
>
>
>
> Regarding Race 4:
>
> There was a large win bet placed on #6 Port Curtis
> with 3 minutes to the off shortening it to 4.20,
> the bet was placed overseas. The result on #9
> Waging War was that it drifted to 4.60 for the
> win.
>
> Effects: The original favourite, #9 Waging War,
> paid R4.60 for the win instead of 2.00-2.50.
>
> #6 Port Curtis became tote
> favourite
>
> #6 Port Curtis paid 4.20 a win and place
>
> The punter for #6 Port Curtis lost
>
> The loss taken by the punter on the
> win bet on #6 Port Curtis did not have any effect
> on the Pick6. #15 was an uncoupled scratching.
>
>
>
> Regarding Race 8:
>
> There was a large win bet placed on #2 Gotham
> Prince with 3 minutes to the off shortening it to
> 4.00, from the same source overseas. The result on
> #9 Perestroika was that it drifted to 4.20 for the
> win.
>
> Effects: The original favourite, #9 Perestroika,
> paid 4.20 for the win instead of 2.50
>
> #2 Gotham Prince became tote
> favourite
>
> The punter for #2 Gotham Prince
> lost
>
> PA tickets on #8 were lost
>
> P6 tickets on #8 were lost
>
>
>
> The discussion I had with Vee brought up the
> following:
>
> 1) To prove tote manipulation would require
> an understanding of the intention of the punter
> that placed the bet, which could never really be
> proven. Therefore, if it is to be controlled, it
> needs to be done by the Tote, either by putting in
> place methods to prevent it or by empowering
> punters to avoid the pitfalls.
>
> 2) Measures are in place limit manipulation
> by cancelling bets. All bets of more than R500
> that are requested to be cancelled, need to be
> approved before they are cancelled.
>
> 3) The main problem is for the PA and P6, for
> which there is little that can be done besides
> changing the coupling and/or scratching rules.
> Knowing the risk of changing tote favourites,
> punters should be limiting their exposure by
> including the “expected favourite” as well as
> scratched coupled runners to ensure that even if
> the tote favourite changes, they still include the
> horses they wanted in their bet.
>
>
>
> I would be happy to take any suggestions regarding
> ways to prevent manipulation for the PA and P6 to
> Phumelela for discussion.

Does the RA support the notion that Foreign players should play such a huge role in betting in SA that the local Punter is left clueless as to the TF due to exchange rates and late bets? Will this not chase the local punter away and thus stunt growth in the local industry? I understand the need for turnover but surely not at the expense of the loyal punters that have kept the industry alive for years?

@Mr H:

We, the bulk of posters/clanspeople, are punters first before being owners, trainers, workers, etc.

This industry is primarily about and on punters (betting turnover).... not about officials and bodies that can unilaterally walk all over us (including the Government/ANC).

Why can't we form a Punter's Asociation right here on this forum and insist on making a presentation to the Parliamentary Committee?

We can join up with all the other sites and form a meaningful group with its focus on the survival and operation of the horseracing industry.

Kick on with your plans Umilo you have our support 100% !

Start a punters association thread,rally the troops,try to acertain who want`s to get involved in the different regions.
Scotia won`t personally be able to get involved as he has work commitments so will take a back seat but still lends his support.

Any help you need let us know,if you need a sub section on here it can be arranged.

Rally the troops

Punters have the power

@Hibs:

Tnx and appreciated.

I must emphasize that this is not about punters only (or any individual, even myself): we are looking at a bigger picture- the entire industry. We shoudl also look into reviving the old spirit (despite its flaws) of camaraderie.

Punters are an amorphous lot; totally unpredictable and with a million and one whims and fancies (that's why they never make money!)

However, the common thread that should unite all is:

1.
Punters (in whatever mode) are the backbone of the industry and are being treated with utter contempt;

2.
The inconsistent decisions and results are no go.

It is the above two issues that we will concentrate on.

Should the entire industry not be prepared to answer concerns and correct them, we shall pursue other channels as legally available to us to bring about redress.

Herein, the only requirement would be for punters to convey their support to a panel / committee.

As for the interim committee, I call upon members to submit their willingness.

The Interim Committee will decide on the way forward once it receives input and directives from members.

Any other points can be included- that's just a draft.

Hibs & Scotia:

Could we then have a dedicated sub-section to get the ball rolling?

Tnx once again.... people, let's do it!

Amandla!

Umlilo -

Count me in.

We also need a owners body that is fully representative of the smaller owners as well. Not just a body that consists of the Big Guns.

Atleast jhb has the RA,here in dbn u pay 2k for a badge and have an owners assoc that's non existent, give it a bash umlilo

@bad company:

I would suggest that you kick off forming a KZN chapter; read my previous post and the response from ABC... fully behind us!

Members can from within the ranks of owners, trainers, jockeys, punters and even grooms. We are looking at the overall picture... not just slots of it on a postage stamp!

Make out a mandate form and get punters to sign / pledge their support.

Something to the following effect:

I, a punter / owner / trainer / groom / other, hereby fully support the ABC Committee and mandate them to request the relevant parties / authorities to redress / inquire into the following-

1. The inconsistent and arbitrary decisions in all aspects of horseracing;
2. The incredulous tote payouts;
3. Any other issue/s pertinent to promoting and/or safeguarding the industry and the welfare of all of its role players / stake holders.

Name Tel / Cell Address Signature Date

1. ________________________________________________________

2. ________________________________________________________

3. etc

As for address, they can indicate the Tote outlet or bookie. You can assure them that under no circumstances will we reveal the identities of the signatories except. When making representations, and our credentials are questioned, we will tell them that we have X no of members. The only time we will allow for confirmation is with a Government official / body to peruse and verify the numbers.

Once an interim committe is formed, we will proceed. As for funding, we might request a donation of minimum R10.00 or so. However, that depends on the committee.

I must clarify that it is not our intention to form syndicates, give out tips, etc. We will primarily address the rot within the industry and attempt resolution. If all else fails, then members must be ready for a full scale boycott. Reportsback will be via this forum.

Once you have these signed, they can be faxed through for our records and actioning. We can only achieve anything if we stand united!

As you know, there will be no pussyfooting with me (if elected/nominated to the committee), whether the industry or Government!

Amandla!

Wouldn`t cast anything in stone before you can get say atleast 100 paid up members Umilo,anyway a thought it was meant to be a punters group,diversifying too much will be a logistical nightmare

@Hibs:

Tnx for input.

Let's put our heads together and formulate excatly what is to be attended to.
I see the inconsistencies (from the numerous comments ' posts) about results and the NHA as one major issue.

The 2nd would be the extent of nepotism, conflicts of interests, non-accountability, etc and how they impact upon the industry's credibility and performance.

Both the above would be deemed to be intricately linked to punters' interests.

Over to you!

Umlilo sometimes I ask myself if its worth fighting for,to put in all the effort and hit a roadblock wouldn't appeal to me,I'm losing my passion daily for racing.
I used to punt everyday but after all these results and politics I realised we just being PLAYED,in the last 6 weeks I only played twice and only two races per meeting

@bad company:

I share your sentiments.

This is not about you and me; there are major stakes involved and a status quo has to be maintained at all costs.

You must have noted; whenever I post or respond to some contentious issues... there is total silence (except for one or two genuine posters)! They do not want to engage except on their terms... virtually the whole lot of them! If it is people of colour, then only those who are seen to be 'acceptable' in-house natives.... Uncle Toms!

Examine the efforts of the likes of Dr Len Konar, Peter Naidoo, Vee Moodley, etc.... never heard a word on either the concerns (see-saw results & payouts), or the personal agendas that sees them and their family members / colleagues in various positions or with 'tenders'! In none of these do you come across an Indian /African or even a Khoisan/Coloured like me being 'invited' to participate.

Blacks are good as 'yes' men and security guards, cleaners and tellers... nothing more!

Where are the blacks in decision-making positions? Why no Indians/Coloureds on Phumelela?

No matter what shit they hurl; the dismissal of Smiley Moosa is indefensible. Which black TV presenter or commentator have you seen to progress beyond his post; yet whiteys like Graeme Hawkins, Clyde Basel, Andrew Bonn, etc can even hold 2 jobs at a time, own racehorses and even become CEO's (without any qualifications)!

Just go through this thread: the RA deems itr fit to respond to issues raised well after I put some questions to them; to date, still no come-back!

In other words... go and get f....ked!

Well.... their time is up!

Yes, Bad Company.... give it up; not worth the effort when there is nothing at the end of the rainbow; this rainbow is whites only!