Betfair not here to stay

hi jack . your reference to speeding is just but then speeding over 120kph is morally illegal in sa . betting with an overseas bookie is illegal , the question is , is it morally illegal . another question - laying of a horse is illegal , then a bookie' licence allows for this ( no amount of debate will cloud this fact ) . no matter how long and hard i search i can not come up with any geniune law as to the illegal nature of gambling on an overseas site - help me ( this is a honest request ) . it is really hard to understand your reasoning . hope you are not a bookie trying to put your point forward and that point being that only a bookie has rights . our rights as customers should be put forward to the competitions board . when logic prevails then it would be seen as a small minority trying to protect their own ( laying a horse at even money then shopping around for a better price - wow - light bulb - maybe even on betfair ) and the monopoly broken and us customers being allowed the best possible price available . pre 1994 we fought for freedom of choice . we got that . now we are still fighting for freedom of choice . baffling .

ravin Wrote:

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> hi jack . your reference to speeding is just but
> then speeding over 120kph is morally illegal in sa
> . betting with an overseas bookie is illegal ,
> the question is , is it morally illegal . another
> question - laying of a horse is illegal , then a
> bookie' licence allows for this ( no amount of
> debate will cloud this fact ) . no matter how long
> and hard i search i can not come up with any
> geniune law as to the illegal nature of gambling
> on an overseas site - help me ( this is a honest
> request ) . it is really hard to understand your
> reasoning . hope you are not a bookie trying to
> put your point forward and that point being that
> only a bookie has rights . our rights as customers
> should be put forward to the competitions board .
> when logic prevails then it would be seen as a
> small minority trying to protect their own (
> laying a horse at even money then shopping around
> for a better price - wow - light bulb - maybe even
> on betfair ) and the monopoly broken and us
> customers being allowed the best possible price
> available . pre 1994 we fought for freedom of
> choice . we got that . now we are still fighting
> for freedom of choice . baffling .


just to add...i have been betting for many years...and only now its dawning on me at how we are being fleeced by our local bookies..

case in question our bookies lay when 2 teams are competing something like 7/10 and 11/10..betting to something like 110%....and if we are betting in running i must wait for a 10 % swing in the odds just to break even....today i was in betdaq...and watching tennis being bet in running....and it was fast and furious odds...but at no point were they betting more than 102%....now in running...i just needed a swing of 5 %on the original odds..and i was a winner by 3%....these were true odds...not like the odds on offer here....on that 1 game alone today...more than 350 000 pounds was traded,,...and every point was traded....there is money to be made..albeit small percentages...but the odds are more realistic

so much for freedom of choice

with betfair not being able to seen on our screens soon how are our bookies who offer betting in running going to price up as there is no doubt they follow the in running betting on betfair and copy it

pirates Wrote:

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> with betfair not being able to seen on our screens
> soon how are our bookies who offer betting in
> running going to price up as there is no doubt
> they follow the in running betting on betfair and
> copy it

Pirates i think they also use bet 365 !

With the time delay on" in running" markets as far as I understand it's best if the bookmakers have a direct Betfair link.

I was impressed by a tour I had just before the festive season to a leading bookmaker to see this facility in action.

Hi Ravin

This isn't baffling and it isn't about freedom of choice. I also want Betfair here and legal where we can all deposit and withdraw freely rather than being milked by those with large pots of currency on both sides who middle us to death. As a betfair man you will have noticed millions of Rands being traded on specific horses recently. That overseas bidder was very quickly accommodated here and you could see the money flow somehow into the legal SA system in minutes changing the prices. It must be magic.

I don't care to go through the laws again because it takes paragraphs just to make one point but this may explain more or less. If you take a car in for roadworthy, by the time you have filled in the forms, produced ID, seen the paper trail and the gone through the roadworthy itself you can see for yourself what the whole process is TRYING to do, not so?

It happens that I did the bookmaker processes a few times for various reasons, and once you have filled in so much paper, and seen the software that the SABS had to test that bookmakers HAVE to use, then BOOKMAKERS are 100% certain that Betfair cannot be used. Then when you read the outcomes of cases where the judges have ruled and " interpreted" the existing laws (which does not mention betting exchanges specifically), you can see that there is no way it is currently legal.

The reason is that tobacco, alcohol, arms, petrol...gambling are special industries, and the government has independent rules for these industries. So shops can't just sell alcohol, tobacco can't be sold to kids or smoked in movie houses, you can't just buy a gun etc etc, and you can't lay even though it's just the opposit of play..no matter how you try to reword it. To underline it finally, betting exchanges are not allowed to open here, so you have to use one outside the borders...somehow some people think this makes it more legal! Perhaps when a really big player gets bust we will see how it plays out.

The groups against betting exchanges also know, and they stuck it to Betfair in public recently, so the closure had to be imminent because, for example, even if a policeman doesn't care...he still can't let people offend if everyone has their eyes on him all of a sudden. You could have taken poison that betfair would have to block. It took all of about 8 weeks.

The USA is considered free, but betting exchanges are banned in the one place that gambles on every commodity and stock and product ever made. It is all about who gets a cut out of every big money spinner. It really is that simple.

watch this space....to every rule the government or powers of racing make,there is always someone out there ,who can find a loophole around it......just watch this space...there will be breaking news..in a month or so...provided all the paper work goes through....and we will all be betting on exchanges

RACING GURU Wrote:

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> watch this space....to every rule the government
> or powers of racing make,there is always someone
> out there ,who can find a loophole around
> it......just watch this space...there will be
> breaking news..in a month or so...provided all the
> paper work goes through....and we will all be
> betting on exchanges

Ok RG, we can only hope. If you are right, in a month or so the entire cumbersome bureaucracy that is controlled by the Gambling Boards and their collecting of billions of rands will be over. Thanks be. To think that this nightmare of taxes, huge fees, draconian compliance fines, rules and regulations and surprise inspections, and the controlling political crap all comes to an end soon is just a relief.

Will horse racing lose the 6% like sport? And please, the vat on everything that's been in dispute for years, is that also being released for exchanges and therefore the national tote and bookmakers too? I must confess I am amazed that this can and will all be accomplished in a month, and without anything table for parliament yet! More than amazed, maybe sceptical even.

Jack,

I sense your temperature may be rising.

the beauty part of this was that it was brought along by the government itself...and sometimes..their own decisions back fire on them in time....all i can say at this stage..countries in africa have free trade...and the exchange betting company wont be based in south africa...but in an african state...not far from us..and its not zimbabwe...so dont get nervous

Must get Oscar to get us some chill pills to bring down to the Cape next week .....lol