Squeeky clean this game...:S

One thing i don't understand about SA racing compared to overseas racing...you just watch at the 400m mark even the horse that is coming stone last the jock still rides for his life to finish as close as possible to the rest of the field. In our country it seems as thou jocks only try if they think they can win, thus so many times you have PA results because in fact the 4th placed horse stopped riding 50m out and got nabbed for the 3rd place position by a no name brand jock who will do anything for that 3rd place position.

Englander Wrote:

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> Mr H... I know you know this anyway, but I have to
> say this... "A" jockey is meant to be a (and it is
> one of my favourite words when dealing with SA
> racing) professional especially when people's
> money is involved. Let us just say you are correct
> and misjudgements happen occasionally... that is
> just not farking good enough to me, make sure must
> be the rule. I would have won a small fortune if
> "a" particular horse had won. If you misjudge and
> lose you should be banned a long time, but nothing
> happens, tis bolox.
> How did I do Bob cos i am still seething over
> "A" particular race!!! :X

yes ...

mr hawaii Wrote:

---

> Englander Wrote:
>

---

>

---

> > Mr H... I know you know this anyway, but I have
> to
> > say this... "A" jockey is meant to be a (and it
> is
> > one of my favourite words when dealing with SA
> > racing) professional especially when people's
> > money is involved. Let us just say you are
> correct
> > and misjudgements happen occasionally... that
> is
> > just not farking good enough to me, make sure
> must
> > be the rule. I would have won a small fortune
> if
> > "a" particular horse had won. If you misjudge
> and
> > lose you should be banned a long time, but
> nothing
> > happens, tis bolox.
> > How did I do Bob cos i am still seething
> over
> > "A" particular race!!! :X
>
> yes ...


Does the word "orchestrated", come to mind.

No the word orchestrated does not come to mind - Watch the race - Grasp Your Destiny(under the hands) goes past Caymen Island (under a driving ride from the 400m) as if it's standing still. The horse then idles up front and Bernard's horse find his feet late - How could Hatt, having passed Caymen Island with ease , know that the horse was making up ground late so as to "orchestrate" a result?

mr hawaii Wrote:

---

> No the word orchestrated does not come to mind -
> Watch the race - Grasp Your Destiny(under the
> hands) goes past Caymen Island (under a driving
> ride from the 400m) as if it's standing still. The
> horse then idles up front and Bernard's horse find
> his feet late - How could Hatt, having passed
> Caymen Island with ease , know that the horse was
> making up ground late so as to "orchestrate" a
> result?

Ever watch an orchestra Mr H.

Every player knows when to step in and when to step out....To get the perfect outcome.

The only thing that can possibly go wrong, is someone playing out of tune.

You seem to know a lot about racing, and tend to come across defensive about sensitive questions around the integrity of racing.

I do know a lot about racing and i know this was not orchestrated(I also never speak from my pocket and take the wins with the loses) - Have you actually watched this race? Do you actually know how hard it is to fix a race with 20m to go and horses going 60km an hour? ? And to win by a nose.? Try that in your car with a friend in his and see if you can do it especially when he's behind you.
There are many fixes in Racing but this is not one of them. It was a mistake by Hatt at best as his horse was traveling better than anything with 400m to go. Also you should realize that trainers and owners do not want their horses winning by huge margins to protect the MR so to hammer a horse that moves up so strongly and get a huge penalty because you win by 5 is something that jockeys never do if they can help it. Hatt never stops riding his mount but he only gives him a crack when it's too late. I think if you feel Racing is so rotten you should find another hobby

FORMGRIDS GRASP YOUR DESTINY

The combined winning margin for this horse in 4 wins is..... less than half a length so he is obviously a difficult horse to ride as he idles when he hits the front

mr hawaii Wrote:

---

> I do know a lot about racing and i know this was
> not orchestrated(I also never speak from my pocket
> and take the wins with the loses) - Have you
> actually watched this race? Do you actually know
> how hard it is to fix a race with 20m to go and
> horses going 60km an hour? ? And to win by a
> nose.? Try that in your car with a friend in his
> and see if you can do it especially when he's
> behind you.
> There are many fixes in Racing but this is not
> one of them. It was a mistake by Hatt at best as
> his horse was traveling better than anything with
> 400m to go. Also you should realize that trainers
> and owners do not want their horses winning by
> huge margins to protect the MR so to hammer a
> horse that moves up so strongly and get a huge
> penalty because you win by 5 is something that
> jockeys never do if they can help it. Hatt never
> stops riding his mount but he only gives him a
> crack when it's too late. I think if you feel
> Racing is so rotten you should find another hobby
>
> FORMGRIDS GRASP YOUR DESTINY
>
> The combined winning margin for this horse in 4
> wins is..... less than half a length so he is
> obviously a difficult horse to ride as he idles
> when he hits the front

Mr H , my comments do not refer to this race specifically, and you do seem to be missing my point.

There have been a number of comments about this particular race, so that alone should make you apply some thought to what the perception "out there" is about racing.

Mr H... I am nothing but honest and my poor internet reception has not allowed me a clear view of "a" race and I am simply going on what others have said. The impression I have got is that the horse that lost should have won and the jock misjudged. I hear you about MRs etc but surely if you are a pro you give the horse a crack early so when you hit the front (at the right time) its concentrating enough so that a n other horse does not pass. I have at no point intimated (I don't think, though in the heat of the moment...) that it was rigged and tend to side with your argument, there are much simpler ways to fix a race than losing by a nostril in a (doctored ) photo! < I do however feel that if a jock did not do all he could and/or should have done to ensure the race was won then he should be held accountable, MRs should not come into the equation. By banning jocks for however long will also help stop the MR games to some extent. To just say, oh nevermind, jock 'A" misjudged it is not good enough. As per the original example in the UK, they should be questioned and then banned as appropriate. I would assume in case "a" no-one even mentioned it, though maybe the trainer gave a quick "tut"

Observer I challenge you to show me a race you think is fixed locally without using the BETTING as a guide - If you have a replay or two post them so that we can all have a look - I will never ever believe racing is completely straight nor will i believe it is as bent as some would like us to believe. I wonder if you have ever thought that the Jockey(and no my name is not Titch) only has control of the horse for the duration of the race while the fitness and soundness of the horse is in the care of the trainer/grooms and vets which is 90% of winning. These are not machines that you can turn on and off at will. I study form using facts and not perceptions or rumours

Englander Wrote:

---

> Mr H... I am nothing but honest and my poor
> internet reception has not allowed me a clear view
> of "a" race and I am simply going on what
> others have said. The impression I have got is
> that the horse that lost should have won and the
> jock misjudged. I hear you about MRs etc but
> surely if you are a pro you give the horse a crack
> early so when you hit the front (at the right
> time) its concentrating enough so that a n other
> horse does not pass. I have at no point intimated
> (I don't think, though in the heat of the
> moment...) that it was rigged and tend to side
> with your argument, there are much simpler ways to
> fix a race than losing by a nostril in a (doctored
> ) photo! < I do however feel that if a jock
> did not do all he could and/or should have done to
> ensure the race was won then he should be held
> accountable, MRs should not come into the
> equation. By banning jocks for however long will
> also help stop the MR games to some extent. To
> just say, oh nevermind, jock 'A" misjudged it is
> not good enough. As per the original example in
> the UK, they should be questioned and then banned
> as appropriate. I would assume in case "a" no-one
> even mentioned it, though maybe the trainer gave a
> quick "tut"

Englander the clue is in the horse's prvious wins - He just gets up by a nose- What other horse do you know that has won four races with a COMBINED TOTAL of less than half a length -

I'm sorry, but please correct me if you think I'm wrong...when Anton Marcus hits the front and is an easy winner, when do you ever see him stop riding? If he was on that horse at the 100m marker he would have been pushing, he is being paid a riding fee in order to get the most out of the horse for trainer/owner, the professional he is there are no games, a horse wins fair and square and loses the same. That ride of Snaiths that he had for Beck on the weekend, I guarantee 90% of jocks would have stopped riding, but he fought on. That ride at Clairwood where he had no hope at the 300m marker, but somehow found another gear from the horse(Best ride I've ever in my life seen, and I think most will agree). As so is this with horses that he leads from the front, no matter how easy the race is.

Sure don't go and win by 10L if you don't have to, but if you only cruising by 1L in the final 100m, don't think that its still alright to play games.

Is 30k difference between 1st and 2nd place really worth protecting a MR? I think not

Mr H... that is not the point, the point imho is, from what everyone has said, including your very goodself, he should have won that race too. Failing to do so in those circumstances surely the jock should be asked questions... but he is not and that is why I get so aggravated. I accept poor rides happen, I don't accept a horse in a position to win failing to do so because the jock misjudges, that to me is simply the jock playing a game that should not be played.