Scottsville 14/8/2013

  • rob faux
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Re: Re: Scottsville 14/8/2013

11 years 9 months ago
#383712
Justanotherpunter Wrote:
> Rob,
>
> all horses across the whole crop,irrespective of
> age have been raised 6 points in MR.It has nothing
> to do with when they last raced,I think it came
> into effect 1 Aug.
>
> This has something to do with being on a par with
> international ratings.
>
> Not sure why you are confused about this?


No JAP,applicable to 4 yr olds and older only(ie not 3 yr olds)..........so why include any 3yr old who had the cheek to run in open company as a 2 yr old.

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  • vis
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Re: Re: Scottsville 14/8/2013

11 years 9 months ago
#383715
Justanotherpunter Wrote:
> I'm actually wrong about when it happened I
> think,don't think 1 Aug was the date.
>
> Look at Dodge City,race 7.Ran on 6 Aug off a
> 64,now a 70.
>
> All horses are up 6 pts in MR,that's all I know
> for sure.

The current 3yolds weren't raised accross the board.

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  • Justanotherpunter
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Re: Re: Scottsville 14/8/2013

11 years 9 months ago
#383716
Here are the handicapping guidelines as of November last year.I think they remain the same.

Handicapping Guidelines– 12 November 2012
Page 1 of 3
Race Type Guideline
1. Maiden Juvenile/Juvenile Plates Rated as separate crop.
Average horse Gross 70 (Filles 65) - [Major Centre]
Average horse 65 (Fillies 60) [Secondary Centre].
2. Maiden Plate Winners 4yo + Benchmark Net 70 (Major Centre) Net 65 (PE); Net 60 (Kimberley); Net 58 (Zimbabwe).
3yo -Benchmark Net 78 (Major Centre); Net 73 (PE) Net 60 (Kimberley) Net 58 (Zimbabwe).
The Handicapping panel has the discretion to allocate an additional adjustment of 6 rating points above the
benchmark for a superior performance. Horses with 5 runs and more on a surface are exempt.
3. Minor Plate Races ( Novice,
Graduation, Progress, Allowance,
Pinnacle, Conditions & Superior) –
including Non-Black Type
Conditions Plates
Achieved higher rating may be requested (for placed horses only), or 6 MR points if the rating achieved is 6 or
more above the current MR.
4. MR Handicap Races - including
Non-Black Type Handicap races
1. Winner: Minimum 1kg adjustment.
2. The maximum adjustment applicable to any handicap placed horse on either surface shall not be more
than 8 merit rating points. This limitation is not applicable to Graded and Listed races, or horses carrying
over-weight or weighted under sufferance.
3. Big increases in rating should also result in big decreases in rating for subsequent non-performance.
5. Grade 1 & 2 races Upward Adjustment to first 5 finishers only
6. Grade 3 & Listed races Upward Adjustment to placed horses only

7. Sand and Turf Ratings
1. Wins and places are cumulative on both surfaces.
2. A maiden with three runs on one surface who shows improvement on another surface over a similar distance, may have dual ratings
which will be official after three runs; if still a maiden.
Horses 4 years and older and who are the winner of a race; whose rating is NOT on an upward trend; show improvement on a new
surface may have dual ratings. The handicappers must be satisfied that there is a discernible difference between the two ratings.
Horses without Sand form; will be re-assessed after 2 runs and to best achieved within 3 runs.
3. Should a 2 or 3-year-old horse which has form on one surface go on to show improvement on another surface, it is reasonable to
assume that the horse has improved with maturity. If the rating goes up on one surface the rating on the other surface may increase
at the discretion of the handicapper.
4. A horse with 5 or more handicap runs on a surface will be deemed to be established on that surface.
5. The handicappers reserve the right to increase the lesser rating by 50% of the relative improvement should a horse have made
exceptional (more than 8lb) improvement over a different aptitude, gelding, equipment change, distance, trainer change etc.
6. The layoff allowance (if applicable- See 8 below); will apply to both ratings.
7. Margins on the Vaal Sand and at Flamingo Park to be treated at 75% of turf length/distance factor.

Handicapping Guidelines– 12 November 2012
Page 3 of 3
8. a. Layoff Allowance ( 210 days and more)
Horses four- years- old and older where no WFA was applicable at last start; to receive up to a 3 rating point allowance.
Three- year-old horses to where WFA was applicable at last start; to receive up to a 5 rating point allowance.
b. Layoff Allowance (365 days and more)
Horses four- years-old and older where no WFA was applicable at last start; to receive up to a 5 rating point allowance.
Three- year-old horses where WFA was applicable at last start; to receive up to a 5 rating point allowance.
Retrospective assessments of a horse’s last 3 starts when returning from a layoff will also to be utilized when making a rating
adjustment.

Note point 4.2,a horse can pick up up to 8 pts for being placed in a handicap.

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  • haveapunt
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Re: Re: Scottsville 14/8/2013

11 years 9 months ago
#383717
Lemonade river should be a big runner if fit and suited to the course.

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  • rob faux
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Re: Re: Scottsville 14/8/2013

11 years 9 months ago
#383718
nagboy Wrote:
> rob faux Wrote:
>
>
> > Would one of the forum handicappers straighten
> me
> > out please:
> >
> > How in earth can Garibondy (a 2yr old turned 3
> )
> > go from a rating of 80 to 93 after winning a
> > handicap(not under sufferance)
> >
> > (I thought 8 points was max.............and
> > coincidentally I rated the run at 88 anyway)
> >
> > I think that Elusive Spirit's (another 3 yr old
> )
> > rating is also a bit harsh
> >
> > Have I misunderstood ?
>
> Rob, my guess is, because Garibondy had won a
> handicap as a two year old she was also given the
> six point raise in line with the older horses. If
> she wasn't she would have in effect only have been
> given a 1 point penalty for her win.


Correct Nagboy,but the way it was implemented all other 3 yr olds are presently MINUS 6 !!

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  • Justanotherpunter
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Re: Re: Scottsville 14/8/2013

11 years 9 months ago
#383720
rob faux Wrote:
> Justanotherpunter Wrote:
>
>
> > Rob,
> >
> > all horses across the whole crop,irrespective
> of
> > age have been raised 6 points in MR.It has
> nothing
> > to do with when they last raced,I think it came
> > into effect 1 Aug.
> >
> > This has something to do with being on a par
> with
> > international ratings.
> >
> > Not sure why you are confused about this?
>
>
> No JAP,applicable to 4 yr olds and older only(ie
> not 3 yr olds)..........so why include any 3yr old
> who had the cheek to run in open company as a 2 yr
> old.

Ok,thanks Rob,I've been on 'racing leave' since 28 July so what I've heard on heresay is obviously incorrect then.I'll have to take a closer look at it when I get going at the end of the month again.

It doesn't make sense if the 3 year olds weren't raised too.

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  • Tim
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Re: Re: Scottsville 14/8/2013

11 years 9 months ago
#383721
rob faux Wrote:
> Tim and Jap,lets forget the merits of the specific
> horse for a minute and look at the theory:
>
> a)Horses A and B meet as 2yr olds,at level weights
> and are separated by a short head
> b) in July horse A runs UNPLACED in open company
> so becomes liable to the automatic 6 points merely
> for competing
> c)they meet in Aug and suddenly horse A has to
> concede horse B 3kg
>
> How do you make sense of that?


Rob I agree with you .

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  • Justanotherpunter
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Re: Re: Scottsville 14/8/2013

11 years 9 months ago
#383725
How on earth have these okes managed to cock this up.

Oh I forgot,this is SA racing.Fucking circus as per usual.

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  • rob faux
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Re: Re: Scottsville 14/8/2013

11 years 9 months ago
#383726
Justanotherpunter Wrote:
> rob faux Wrote:
>
>
> > Justanotherpunter Wrote:
> >
>
>
> >
> > > Rob,
> > >
> > > all horses across the whole crop,irrespective
> > of
> > > age have been raised 6 points in MR.It has
> > nothing
> > > to do with when they last raced,I think it
> came
> > > into effect 1 Aug.
> > >
> > > This has something to do with being on a par
> > with
> > > international ratings.
> > >
> > > Not sure why you are confused about this?
> >
> >
> > No JAP,applicable to 4 yr olds and older
> only(ie
> > not 3 yr olds)..........so why include any 3yr
> old
> > who had the cheek to run in open company as a 2
> yr
> > old.
>
> Ok,thanks Rob,I've been on 'racing leave' since 28
> July so what I've heard on heresay is obviously
> incorrect then.I'll have to take a closer look at
> it when I get going at the end of the month
> again.
>
> It doesn't make sense if the 3 year olds weren't
> raised too.


Phew JAP you had me worried for a bit...............please re-assess our debate when you get a chance............I would value your opinion on the example I have offered!

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  • Justanotherpunter
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Re: Re: Scottsville 14/8/2013

11 years 9 months ago
#383730
Just talking to Jack,he says it's another cock up and nobody knows wtf is going on.

Apparently it all stemmed from the international handicappers meeting held in Durban.Pressure has come from this meeting.No notification,no justification.

I'm not going to try and work this out.I just don't have the patience.Apparently they haven't raised the sand horses either.

I'm off until month end,I'll just let things settle.

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  • gregbucks
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Re: Re: Scottsville 14/8/2013

11 years 9 months ago
#383735
Fark me, try explaining this MR system to a newbie... ::o ... sports betting and casino much easier ...(:P)

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  • Justanotherpunter
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Re: Re: Scottsville 14/8/2013

11 years 9 months ago
#383738
Publically the 3 year olds have not been raised,but remember their ratings weren't published.

Garibondy was likely raised to an 87 after her last run.

As a result of no proper notification,this is just speculation of course,but I think the handicappers have raised the 3 year olds 6 points behind the scenes too.That is how I can see Garibondy being a 93 now.

Who really knows,nobody apparently(not publically anyway).

Once again,the slogan of 'racing the brain game' doesn't hold true,we just have to guess.

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