Fraud in the Tote

I have made a few (online) mistakes and I have never been refused by a bookie. I called, told them what I did and what I meant to do and they have always fixed. Of course you wouldn't even ask if the odds have changed.

I have made a mistake on interbet and they refused to change, which is ironic because another time when they offered the win price for a place they cancelled the bets after the race. So it depends who you are (details available if they challenge this).

To be fair I have changed bets on the tote, but again all by phone. Maybe it's different if you a man in a queue.

As for the bookies percentages, if you look at the latest meeting's dividend at Greyville on Sunday you will see that the bookies paid an avg 20% more (1.211) than the tote over the 8 races, and that at starting price which requires no skill what-so-ever.

If you can bring some skill you can improve your odds and take better than SP, often much better, leaving the bookie with very poor percentages.

Muhtiman wrote:

Mini Tycoon wrote: Every day, in every way, you are nuts to play the tote.

What if you do make a mistake?

Happily, us in the know can leave the urine smelling tote to the cannon fodder who can try to beat the 25% take out. Good luck with that.

.....you okes in the know.... will have very little to bet on when the local tote eventually does fail because of the high take out....smelly urinals and the cannon fodder that has very little option and those that manipulate the tote system.....not saying it's your fault.....the okes that run the tote..... are causing the likes of you..... the bookie supporters to gloat..... :S

.....talking about mistakes....I know no bookie that would refund or alter a bet if I made a mistake.... :lol:

Hollywood have let me correct mistakes.......they do insist that its before the race though....lol..lol

I am sure there are some horror stories with some bookmakers ,but in talking to bookmakers ,and from my own experience when I had a cubicle,what some punters try to pull is mind boggling -I know that some of the stories posted on the forum would have a very interesting "other side".

Mini Tycoon wrote: As for the bookies percentages, if you look at the latest meeting's dividend at Greyville on Sunday you will see that the bookies paid an avg 20% more (1.211) than the tote over the 8 races, and that at starting price which requires no skill what-so-ever.

Swings and Round Abouts but Tote definitely not 20% below Book Makers prices on the 8 races...
Greyville 19th
Race 4 Silver Sails Tote R3.20 SP 22/10
Race 6 Strategic Move Tote R4.60 SP 7/2
Race 7 Celtic Captain Tote R2.00 SP 8/10
Turffontein 18th
Race 1 Simply Royal Tote R4.60 SP 3/1
Race 7 PatchIt Up Baby Tote R2.10 SP 11/10
Race 9 Ilitshe Tote R3.60 SP 5/2

Just a matter of interest, on July Day, the payouts on every race shows what a strong Tote Pool can achieve.

In an ideal world, the Bookmakers should only offer Fixed Win and Place and all other exotics should be run by the Tote.

At the moment due to the Exotic Pools being of small amounts in the Foreign meetings, I play the Open Bet as I don't bring the dividends down if my bet wagered is caught.

Just aside on Sunday in race 1 just before the jump Inyati plunged on the tote to R1,80 from about R3,30 and Deez goes .......... about it!!!

Mini Tycoon wrote: I have made a few (online) mistakes and I have never been refused by a bookie. I called, told them what I did and what I meant to do and they have always fixed. Of course you wouldn't even ask if the odds have changed.

I have made a mistake on interbet and they refused to change, which is ironic because another time when they offered the win price for a place they cancelled the bets after the race. So it depends who you are (details available if they challenge this).

To be fair I have changed bets on the tote, but again all by phone. Maybe it's different if you a man in a queue.

As for the bookies percentages, if you look at the latest meeting's dividend at Greyville on Sunday you will see that the bookies paid an avg 20% more (1.211) than the tote over the 8 races, and that at starting price which requires no skill what-so-ever.

If you can bring some skill you can improve your odds and take better than SP, often much better, leaving the bookie with very poor percentages.

superb posting and i can tell you if you punt wins and places on the tote you should seriously consider giving up racing for gambling purposes

Titch wrote:

Mini Tycoon wrote: As for the bookies percentages, if you look at the latest meeting's dividend at Greyville on Sunday you will see that the bookies paid an avg 20% more (1.211) than the tote over the 8 races, and that at starting price which requires no skill what-so-ever.

Swings and Round Abouts but Tote definitely not 20% below Book Makers prices on the 8 races...
Greyville 19th
Race 4 Silver Sails Tote R3.20 SP 22/10 3/1 available with bookies R4.00
Race 6 Strategic Move Tote R4.60 SP 7/2
Race 7 Celtic Captain Tote R2.00 SP 8/10 15/10 with the bookies
Turffontein 18th
Race 1 Simply Royal Tote R4.60 SP 3/1
Race 7 PatchIt Up Baby Tote R2.10 SP 11/10 19/10 available with the bookies R2.9
Race 9 Ilitshe Tote R3.60 SP 5/2 11/2 available with the bookies R6.5

ilitshe traded as much as 6 to 1 with the bookies

Titch wrote:

Mini Tycoon wrote: As for the bookies percentages, if you look at the latest meeting's dividend at Greyville on Sunday you will see that the bookies paid an avg 20% more (1.211) than the tote over the 8 races, and that at starting price which requires no skill what-so-ever.

Swings and Round Abouts but Tote definitely not 20% below Book Makers prices on the 8 races...
Greyville 19th
Race 4 Silver Sails Tote R3.20 SP 22/10
Race 6 Strategic Move Tote R4.60 SP 7/2
Race 7 Celtic Captain Tote R2.00 SP 8/10
Turffontein 18th
Race 1 Simply Royal Tote R4.60 SP 3/1
Race 7 PatchIt Up Baby Tote R2.10 SP 11/10
Race 9 Ilitshe Tote R3.60 SP 5/2

Well you got me there, Titch.

It's about 15% more. But only if we use the Bettingworld SP as you did this time.
I used Hollywood and it was 21% more.

Came across this today. Published in April 2016 from the Gambling Board.

This gazette is also available free online at www.gpwonline.co.za
STAATSKOERANT, 1 APRIL 2016 No. 39887 97
30

4.4.5 Bookmakers

4.4.5.1 There is a longstanding dispute between the bookmakers, operators and the
horseracing industry. The dispute is about bookmakers collecting open bets or
bets on the results of totalisator betting without contributing to the intellectual
property of the owners as operators to the horseracing industry or towards the
development of the horseracing sport. There must be respect for any proven
Intellectual Property rights (IP) in the horseracing and bookmakers industry.
Assessing the whole argument, it is important to also address this matter in the
event the results of a totalisator are not found to be an IP right as there will be
continuous arguments about what should be paid by bookmakers. The results
should not be to eliminate bookmakers from the betting industry as feared by
bookmakers that the horseracing operators would like to use the rate of
payment as a means to eliminate competition. It would rather be appropriate
that such dispute be prevented by requiring the PLAs to set a reasonable
amount payable to the owner of the totalisator instead of leaving this matter for
the operators to resolve between themselves as they will never agree.

Policy Position

The Act must be amended to require that there must be respect for intellectual
property right within the horseracing and bookmakers industry. PLAs must set
the reasonable amount payable for using the results of the totalisator, television
rights, development of horseracing industry and any proven claim for payment
that may arise after consulting industry players.

A reply to a comment from Sportingpost. They basically trusting the Data they receive from a third party...

Patrick Loker, Commercial Executive , Gold Circle, responds: Gold Circle does not operate its own horse racing pools but commingles all of its bets with Phumelela in Saftote, who in turn may commingle with many international racing jurisdictions, based upon a number of different criteria. Consequently, Gold Circle is totally dependent on the integrity of the Saftote system as well as other computer systems around the world where the pool totals are collated and where the dividends are calculated. Once received from Saftote, these are displayed in Gold Circle’s outlets and website and also disseminated on the phone-in services. Should Gold Circle receive incorrect information we have no means of interrogating its accuracy and will display as received. It is also not possible to manually interrogate possible duplication, as in the example brought to our attention, due to the sheer volume of data received. All tote systems in South Africa are GLI certified and approved by the Provincial Regulators. As a possible solution Gold Circle will investigate placing a trace on incoming data streams to test the integrity of data as it is.