Paul Gadsby - The trainers have had enough!

  • Bob Brogan
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Re: Paul Gadsby - The trainers have had enough!

8 years 1 month ago
#666207
Chris van Buuren wrote: I would love to read the NHRA's explanation for this decision and how they came to the 40k sanction.

Did a KZN trainer not just get a 10k fine for kicking a horse twice recently?

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  • neigh
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Re: Paul Gadsby - The trainers have had enough!

8 years 1 month ago
#666209
Racing is becoming a huge embarrassment and a joke. :angry: :angry: Trainers are getting fined R40 000 for their groom kicking a horse but NOTHING for trainers doping horses with COBALT, PIG JUICE etc etc etc etc that are fucking up the studbook, stealing from other owners, trainers, betting public and grooms. Something doesn't sound right or add up does it ? Not to mention the cruelty to the animal. Time to move before the pack of cards comes tumbling down.
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  • mr hawaii
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Re: Paul Gadsby - The trainers have had enough!

8 years 1 month ago
#666210
Bob Brogan wrote:
Chris van Buuren wrote: I would love to read the NHRA's explanation for this decision and how they came to the 40k sanction.

Did a KZN trainer not just get a 10k fine for kicking a horse twice recently?

yes Duncan Howells for kicking a horse twice(in the girth) in the saddling area- got 10k in 2014 of which 5k was suspended... so inflation has taken hold or perhaps since 2014 their have been multiple of these offences so the NHRA wants to prove a point(I don't believe any of it and I think this is just another way to get money into the coffers of an organisation that is going bust)

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Re: Paul Gadsby - The trainers have had enough!

8 years 1 month ago
#666212
Nice way of putting it...rules.......but can be changed at their discretion.... :huh:


Guidelines for the Penalty Ranges regarding Contraventions of the Rules of
The National Horseracing Authority
Preamble
The purpose of this document is to provide clarity and act as a guideline regarding ranges for penalties which may be imposed for contraventions of the Rules below.
When determining whether an offence is a second or further offence the period stipulated under “Period for Consideration” shall apply, with the relevant date being the date on which a finding of the contravention was first made.
However, without derogating from the above purpose, this document shall not limit the discretion of a board in imposing a penalty and under circumstances, which it deems exceptional, the board shall be entitled to deviate from the penalty range below.
Any penalties imposed regarding Rules which are not stipulated below shall remain at the discretion of the relevant Board.

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  • louisg
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Re: Paul Gadsby - The trainers have had enough!

8 years 1 month ago
#666213
Mr H- we are bound by the laws of the land. It is no secret that the labour laws of this Cuntry favour the workers. As much as it is despicable to mistreat any animal, the laws of the land apply.
Paul used SEESA and all they could do was issue a final written warning. If they fired the groom, Paul would not have been in the enquiry today - he would still have been engrossed in CCMA hearings....with back pay being the minimum he would have to pay.
I cannot believe that NHRA are not aware of this !
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  • louisg
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Re: Paul Gadsby - The trainers have had enough!

8 years 1 month ago - 8 years 1 month ago
#666214
Neigh, you will be VERY SURPRISED by how many Racing people of LONG STANDING are sharing your sentiments right now..
Last edit: 8 years 1 month ago by louisg.

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  • naresh
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Re: Paul Gadsby - The trainers have had enough!

8 years 1 month ago
#666215
Employers pay a Skill Development Levy which is shown on a person's Salary Advice. SETA courses have accreditation with NQF qualifications in various fields. Theses courses can be attended by the employee with the amount claimed back from SETA. How intriguing I find equestrian as one of the courses available. Why are trainers not making use of it ? Hmm maybe of you have a qualification higher salaries....

regqs.saqa.org.za/viewQualification.php?id=58493

PURPOSE AND RATIONALE OF THE QUALIFICATION
Purpose:

The General Education and Training Certificate: Equine and Equestrian is the first step in providing formal learning to people working with and around horses.

This Qualification will provide learners with access to various employment opportunities within the Equine and Equestrian industry. This Qualification will contribute to increasing levels of efficiency and effectiveness and will develop a common integrated and co-ordinated approach to this industry. A person acquiring this Qualification will be able to obtain the necessary applied competence to work in the Equine Handling sector. Depending on the area of specialisation, a person acquiring this Qualification will have an understanding of the general and basic Equine and Equestrian skills and techniques. They will be able to work in a stable yard and in the horse racing industry by being able to provide an essential service at the entry level.

The Qualification aims at developing a competent and professional work force to provide a service to clients in a safe, secure and confident manner. The skills, knowledge, values and understanding demonstrated in this Qualification are essential for the safe handling and safe keeping of a horse in a stable.

The core component of the Qualification offers the learner the knowledge and skills required that form the foundation of any career within the Equine and Equestrian Industry that the learner may wish to follow. The Qualification through its elective component enables the learner to specialise in areas that will enhance their chosen career path. It goes without saying that this Qualification will provide the broad knowledge, skills and values needed in the industry and will facilitate access to, and mobility and progression within, education and training.

Qualifying learners could be employed as:
Racing yard Grooms
Horse Handlers
Head Grooms
Hotel stable employees
Junior Farrier Assistants
Junior Racing Assistants
Racing gate Marshals
Equine Veterinary employees

Rationale:

The General Education and Training Certificate: Equine and Equestrian is designed to meet the needs of learners in the Equine and Equestrian industry. It is designed to provide learners with the necessary knowledge, skills and attitudes required in this highly specialised industry. This is the first qualification in the learning pathway in this sector which progresses through to qualifications at NQF level 5 and offers people involved in working with and around horses the opportunity to begin with a programme of life-long learning. The qualification will help them to become knowledgeable and skilled people with enhanced employment opportunities who are able to contribute to improved productivity and efficiency in the Equine and Equestrian Industry.

This Qualification aims to develop learners and promote professionalism and a strong, positive work ethic within the Equine and Equestrian industry, while at the same time bringing it into line with international standards. It provides learners with a knowledge and skills platform from which they can develop additional competencies required for a range of occupations and job-roles in the sector. It will also enable learners to receive a formal Qualification in equine and equestrian handling and stable yard skills where previously no formal recognition of expertise and competence existed.

This Qualification will ensure that the quality of education and training in the Equine and Equestrian industry is enhanced and is in line with the standards worldwide.

LEARNING ASSUMED TO BE IN PLACE AND RECOGNITION OF PRIOR LEARNING
It is assumed that learners accessing this qualification are competent in Communication and Mathematical Literacy at ABET Level 3 on the NQF or equivalent.

Recognition of Prior Learning:

The structure of this Qualification makes the Recognition of Prior Learning possible through the assessment of individual Unit Standards. This Qualification may therefore be achieved in part or completely through the recognition of prior learning, which includes formal, informal and non-formal learning and work experience. The learner should be thoroughly briefed on the mechanism to be used and support and guidance should be provided. Care should be taken that the mechanism used provides the learner with an opportunity to demonstrate competence and is not so onerous as to prevent learners from taking up the RPL option towards gaining a Qualification.

If the learner is able to demonstrate competence in the knowledge, skills, values and attitudes implicit in this Qualification the appropriate credits should be assigned to the learner. Recognition of Prior Learning will be done by means of Integrated Assessment as mentioned above.

This recognition of prior learning may allow:
Gaining of credits for unit standards in the qualification.
Obtaining of this Qualification in part or in whole.

Access to the Qualification:

Access to this Qualification is open.

RECOGNISE PREVIOUS LEARNING?
Y

QUALIFICATION RULES
The Qualification is made up of a combination of learning outcomes from Fundamental, Core and Elective components, totalling 120 minimum credits.

Fundamental: 39 credits.
Core: 51 credits.
Elective (Minimum): 30 credits.
Total: 120 credits.

Fundamental Component:
All the Fundamental Unit Standards totalling 39 credits are compulsory.

Core Component:
All the Core Unit Standards totalling 51 credits are compulsory.

Elective Component:

The qualification consists of a number of elective learning specialisations covering various aspects of the equine and equestrian sector. Learners must select one of the specialisations and complete all the unit standards allocated to it. Should the credits for a specialisation not total the minimum of 30 credits required to complete the qualification, learners must select unit standards from the other specialisations to total the minimum required. The specialisations are:

Race Grooming:
The unit standards are:
> Explain and apply race day routines.
> Fit basic horse racing tack.
> Operate a personal computer system.
> Perform horse riding proficiency skills on a trained horse.
> Repair racing tack.

Riding Proficiency:
There is only one unit standard, namely:
> Perform horse riding proficiency skills on a trained horse.

Learners are to select other unit standards from any of the other specialisations to make up the required credits.

Stable Yard Routines:
The unit standards are:
> Demonstrate basic occupational health and knowledge pertaining to the principles of handling of materials in a workplace.
> Contribute to the suppression of wildfires at basic fire-fighting level.
> Select other Unit Standards from any of the other Elective Unit Standards to make up the required credits.

More specialisations will be added as they become available.

EXIT LEVEL OUTCOMES
1. Work with and handle horses.

2. Work in a stable yard.

3. Understand and effect stable routines.

ASSOCIATED ASSESSMENT CRITERIA
1.
Touch and prepare a horse for riding in a safe manner for themselves and the animal.
Take care of the well-being of the horse to ensure its health and fitness.

2.
Conduct repairs to property and boundaries in a stable yard in accordance with safety standards and procedures.
Perform cleaning and maintenance procedures in a stable yard environment to ensure the safekeeping and health of the horse and people in accordance with safety and environmental standards and procedures.

3.
Prepare a horse for transportation in a safe manner in accordance with safety standards.
Work in a safe manner in a stable yard in accordance with health and safety standards and procedures.
Provide assistance in the event of an injury in a stable yard in accordance with legislative regulations and guidelines.

Integrated Assessment:

Assessment should be carried out at regular intervals as well as at the end of the periods of study and should be offered in an integrated way. It is envisaged that learners will work at more than one unit standard at a time.

Evidence is required that the candidate is able to achieve the purpose of the Qualification as a whole at the time of the award of the Qualification. Integration of skills will be demonstrated through the achievement of the core operational standards.

Assessors should note that evidence of integration could well be presented by candidates when being assessed against the individual unit standards. Thus, there should not necessarily be separate assessments for each unit standard and then further assessment for integration. Well designed assessments should make it possible to gain evidence against each unit standard while at the same time gaining evidence of integration.

INTERNATIONAL COMPARABILITY
This Qualification and set of Unit Standards utilizes international and locally recognised best practice and standards. There is no leading country in this field but there is an international body, The International Group for Equestrian Qualifications (IGEQ) consisting of 32 member countries that regulates equestrian qualifications on an international scale for its member countries through its qualifications body called, The International Group for Equestrian Qualifications. This body has as its objective and function to ensure a high standard of equestrian training in member countries and to issue international equestrian trainer's passports for use by people seeking employment in other countries. The following learning programmes offered by international institutions and organisations were looked at to inform the generation process in terms of specific components of the General Education and Training Certificate: Equine and Equestrian:
Stable Management and Riding Proficiency offered by The Pony Club.
Mounted Policing offered by the Metro Police UK and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
Stud Management/Breeding offered by Massey, Kellogg's.
Disabled Persons Riding offered by the Federation of Riding for the Disabled International.
Farriers offered by Farriers USA.
Welfare offered by the RSPCA.
Complimentary Health Care offered by Equiworks USA.
Tourism Trail Riding offered by the International Tourism Federation, Ireland.

The contents of those programmes were incorporated, where applicable, into the draft qualification and unit standards.

The completed qualification and unit standards were then compared with the following qualifications:

United Kingdom:

Frederick A. Cook Partnership: Equine Certificate.

This qualification contains the following components:
Ground training, backing, schooling and jumping.
Re-schooling and corrective training.
Rehabilitation after racing.
Rehabilitation after injury.
Management advice.
Preparation of horses going into training.
Natural and traditional training methods.

The General Education and Training Certificate: Equine and Equestrian matches most of the components of the above programme, such as, ground training, backing, schooling and jumping, basic management and preparation of horses going into training. The missing components: Re-schooling, Rehabilitation after racing, Rehabilitation after injury and Natural and traditional training methods will be added as specialisations.

British Equestrian Federation:

Their Equine Ethnology Certificate contains the following components:
Horse behaviour theory.
Horse behaviour fundamentals primary grounded skills.
Horse behaviour fundamentals primary ridden skills.
Understanding horse behaviour ground skills online A (12ft).
Horse behaviour ridden patterns A.
Understanding horse behaviours grounded skills online B (22ft).
Horse behaviour ridden patterns B.
Horse behaviour fundamentals at liberty.
Horse behaviour intermediate riding skills freestyle.
Horse behaviours, advanced grounded skills online (45ft).
Understanding house behaviour to develop engagement advanced riding skills A.
Horse behaviour advanced ground skills at Liberty.
Understanding horse behaviour to develop engagement advanced riding skills B.
Understanding horse behaviour to develop engagement advanced riding skills C.
Understanding horse behaviour to develop engagement advanced riding skills D.

As with the Frederick A. Cook Partnership training programme, the General Education and Training Certificate: Equine and Equestrian does not contain all of the components of the above qualification. The missing elements will be included in elective specialisations, if applicable.

Norway:

Riding Instructor Level 1.

It contains the following components:
Practical element:
> Dressage riding.
> Show jumping.
> Cross-country riding.
> Instruction.
> Practical stable work.
> Lunging.
> Vaulting.
> Coach driving.
> Young horse training/riding.
Theoretical elements:
> Riding theory.
> Pedagogic.
> Riding centre administration and management.
> Riding centre economics.
> Horse health/veterinary subject.
> Stable management
> Breeding/conformation.
> Young horse theory.
> Horse psychology.
> Shoeing.
> Riders anatomy.
Other subjects:
> First aid.
> Riding for the disabled.

The comparison is the same as for the previous two qualifications.

Malaysia:

Majlis Ekuin Malaysia.

This qualifications consists of the following:
Core Skills (Modules):
> General Horsemanship A.
> General Horsemanship B.
> Saddlery.
> Rugs, Boots and Bandages.
> Grooming.
> Foot care.
> Feeding.
> Horse death.
> Fitness and conditioning.
> Travelling.
Elective Courses:
> Riding on the Flat.
> Riding over fences.
> Horse management lecture.
> Basic lunging techniques for exercise.
> Basic coaching principles.
> Basic coaching on the flat.
> Basic coaching over fences.
> Towing a horse float.
> Introduction to the shoeing process.
> Trail riding supervisor.
> Horse handling and general husbandry.
> Saddlery and equipment.
> Grooming and presentation.
> Clipping.
> Foot care and shoeing.
> Common foot problems.
> Feeding.
> Horse health.
> Common skin problems.
> Common leg problems.
> Common ailments and disorders.
> Common diseases.
> Special health considerations.
> Fitness and conditioning.
> Travelling.
> Lunging.

Not all components are included in the General Education and Training Certificate: Equine and Equestrian.

Conclusion:

Despite the fact that there is no one-for-one match of the learning in the General Education and Training Certificate: Equine and Equestrian with all that is contained in the above-mentioned qualifications, it is felt that the General Education and Training Certificate: Equine and Equestrian is comparable with best practice internationally as the core learning found in the international qualifications are also in the General Education and Training Certificate: Equine and Equestrian. This conclusion is also based on the fact that the learning in other world renowned training programmes was used to inform the design of the General Education and Training Certificate: Equine and Equestrian and its standards

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  • mr hawaii
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Re: Paul Gadsby - The trainers have had enough!

8 years 1 month ago
#666216
louisg wrote: Mr H- we are bound by the laws of the land. It is no secret that the labour laws of this Cuntry favour the workers. As much as it is despicable to mistreat any animal, the laws of the land apply.
Paul used SEESA and all they could do was issue a final written warning. If they fired the groom, Paul would not have been in the enquiry today - he would still have been engrossed in CCMA hearings....with back pay being the minimum he would have to pay.
I cannot believe that NHRA are not aware of this !

I understand Lou but for me the grooms need to be regulated by the NHRA and fall under their banner just like other industry players - Let me put it another way - Remember the Pas De Quo(sic) incident when the groom attacked the horse with a spade - Now this ruling is so ridiculous that if a groom assaults a horse to PUNISH the trainer the trainer could still get fined as he is responsible for the care of the horse.

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  • easy
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Re: Paul Gadsby - The trainers have had enough!

8 years 1 month ago
#666217
Rightly or wrongly its not uncommon for the buck to stop at the top of a firm. This is why companies have insurance against 3rd party claims etc. The groom works for Paul therefore the buck stops with Paul.

Im not saying its right, in fact its the main reason I sold out in 2014 and moved away from mass employment. The thought that some genius that worked for me could by negligence cause the death of a person and that even though he had undergone inductions / training / courses the buck would eventually stop with me and my partner was just too much.

We had guys working for us in Scotland that could NOT read and write, and that was the straw that broke the camels back. 3 months into our expansion into Scotland the following happened causing waves through out the industry. As sad it this case was the criminal case that follows and the pressure that his bosses felt would be immense.

this is the way of the world

sadly

example 1 the firm is fined £35k

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4380080...anhole-incident.html

example 2 man dies

www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/13265566.Wor...es_in_manhole_crash/

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news...-after-being-2366957

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  • Karma
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Re: Paul Gadsby - The trainers have had enough!

8 years 1 month ago
#666218
Please help me understand (and I apologise for not being so clue'd up on the law), but I work through Seesa. Any employment issues goes through them... you pay your monthly monies etc. Their promise to the client is that if any decision that is made through them and turns out incorrect or is overturned, they will accept full responsibility. Now if Mr G went through Seesa, surely he has nothing to worry about as the "channels of law" have taken course and he has followed the law??? Once again, sorry if im a little behind here (im a construction man not a lawyer lol)...
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  • Lionel
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Re: Paul Gadsby - The trainers have had enough!

8 years 1 month ago
#666219
Is this not similar to sporting events were the clubs are held accountable if their players or fans misbehave? The club gets charged for failing to control their fans/players...

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  • Dave Scott
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Re: Paul Gadsby - The trainers have had enough!

8 years 1 month ago
#666221
louisg wrote: Mr H- we are bound by the laws of the land. It is no secret that the labour laws of this Cuntry favour the workers. As much as it is despicable to mistreat any animal, the laws of the land apply.
Paul used SEESA and all they could do was issue a final written warning. If they fired the groom, Paul would not have been in the enquiry today - he would still have been engrossed in CCMA hearings....with back pay being the minimum he would have to pay.
I cannot believe that NHRA are not aware of this !

You have no idea how biased the CCMA are for the employees vs the employers thats when i stopped creating jobs and closed factories after 3 blatant theft cases with security back up going against us, not to mention the cost and time ................ The groom would end up with safety boots and a pension from the trainer due to him being embarrassed on tellytrack

Ok i am being flippant but catch a wake up call on the way the system works !!!

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