"United we Stand"

catsmug Wrote:

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> If I were breeding horses JD, raising of stakes
> would be an absolute priority

and Pirates.

You are both correct.

Wearing my breeder hat, I need stakes thru the roof. But what are the breeders doing about it? The owner is a customer of the breeder. There is a glut. There are many new stallions who will not get the support they need to get the winners to be successful, because the mares are too moderate and the owners don't want them. There is very little desire for a "cheap" horse because training it is the real expense if it's not good. If you use a cheap stallion, you will make a loss as a breeder.

With my owner hat on, I introduced 2 new owners to racing. I'm waiting for them to ask me what the stakes are. Priorities have been getting the colours, taking pics of the jock in the colours, lunch, watching work, more lunch. When we over extend ourselves with more donkeys, earning stakes will become a priority..any stakes.

The truth of the matter is the insiders: owners-trainers-breeders-employees-management-jockeys...we all need more rands from punters to grow.

This is a punting forum, why worry about owners MORE than other groups? They'll be around long after breeders and trainers, that's for sure.

maybe the stakes issue is less to do with the specifics of incentives for owners and the number of horses in training, and instead a perception that not enough of the punter's Rand is reinvested in racing generally?

Nice debate . In my opinion, the bottom line is that horse racing is a business, and in the case of Phumelela it must be run as a business. So increasing margins by reducing costs, stimulating turnover and getting more 'bang' for your bucks must be the priority of the board. There are too many aspects to this discussion to cover here... but certainly getting racing 'mainstream' must be a high priority. Besides the July and the Met. , racing is hardly ever headline news. Advertising, advertising and advertising... but of course the product must be right, and the infrastructure in place to deal with the 'new' patrons to the track. Like stadiums have 'hospitality' suites.... premier courses should have the same, and then go and woo companies to entertain in these facilities... etc etc etc... the money then will flow to stakes, hopefully bonuses and better income and TRAINING for junior staf .... could go on and on. No quick fix, but a strategy must be put in place ....

There is a quick fix to cutting costs as Karel pointed out clearly to me on another post..and that is to wait for Phum to acquire GC and get rid of unnecessary duplication of heads and assets.

greenbook Wrote:

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> maybe the stakes issue is less to do with the
> specifics of incentives for owners and the number
> of horses in training, and instead a perception
> that not enough of the punter's Rand is reinvested
> in racing generally?

But greenbook, ALL of the money invested in racing is either punters or owners.

We have a wonderful racing product. We have good trainers, jocks and horses, and we know because when we go overseas we do well.

Believe it or not, it is well controlled and other countries can bet here with a great deal of confidence. I know quite a few trainers and jocks, and despite alot of gamblers who cry foul when they've done their tom, these guys are very competitive and very off when they lose.

We have the product, but we have treated the goose (punter) very poorly. All the groups have a 'say', but with our customer we have missed the boat.

Casino's know how, but racing who is run by owners, think that owners are the customer. It is that simple.

So imagine not having a Sporting Post for sale for your customer, or a stinking toilet....we must be insane!

yes all well and good but cost savings will have no effect on stakes, which is the relevant topic.

if a short term result is wanted in this regard, then GC must negotiate for a stakes increase out of the savings. but this will be a one-off. if a long term result is required, then racing must become cheaper for the punter. i don't believe this requires a merger in order to occur.

although Karel has many excellent reasons why a merger will be beneficial for racing, on this particular point I believe a merger significantly reduces the likelihood that take out percentages will reduce, because it reduces the opportunity for competition.

JD I must agree with you..getting a bet on horseracing in decent surroundings should be a major priority..that is a very important pt..owning horses is at yr own peril which most owners find out.

The casinos have got it right in SA whilst this industry has not exactly like you say.

JD, I am with you 100%. if I was a bookie I would be with you 160% and the tax would make it even more.

the racing is great but the "product" is not packaged for the consumer. in particular it is priced out of the market by a business plan that says the punter should be relieved of his cash as quickly as the law will permit, which happens to be at 25% of each bet.

make it cheaper, introduce real competition within racing for the punter's Rand and racing will compete with casinos (who make the most money from their CHEAPEST slots and tables).

Why for instance has Phumulela and GC not approached a BEE media company ( Kagiso comes to mind) with the purpose of getting a racing radio station launched? One of the barriers to the majority enjoying racing is the cost of coverage and access to information. I reckon the majority of exotic bets money comes from the 'previously disadvantaged' who play their R6 and R10 bets hoping for a payout. They don't buy Computaform and Sporting Post, they don't have Tellytrack. But I can assure you the majority of them have a portable radio, and listen to soccer on Radio 2000.... revenues could be generated through advertising and sponsorship. There is no streaming audio over the internet... but Oz racing is live on the internet available 18 hours a day... british racing is covered on various online racing stations...

The people in charge must think out the box.....

Dont call me stupid but can anbody tell me the 7.5% generated from the sales, where does it go to.
Secondly who negotiated the percentage the bookmakers pay over to the tote.

i wasn't there, but i can well imagine that the only voice listened to was P's.

EDIT: apologies, that wasn't the most constructive comment ever made. it seems this thread is suggesting that stakes may not be the critical issue afflicting racing, but there are other issues that if addressed would enhance the industry further. Jim, where would you have us take it from here?

Jamster when you coming out again bud??..are you bringing a foxy blonde with you??