"United we Stand"

Guys in light of ongoing and recent discussions is it not time to remove the 'personal' issues and attempt to gain a general 'consensus' amongnst all stakeholders of the SA Racing Industry?

In light of this, I suggest that 'we' discuss in a meaningful way the different aspects which affects us all.

I know that several contributors of ABC also post on 'Freeracer' so thay can open it up there too.

Once the various topics have been discussed, I would hope a broad-based consensus will be achieved in several areas and then presented to the RA as represntative of it's members and thereby a 'mandate' for them going forward.

As Bravo said: "If you live in the past you will miss the future"

If I can so bold as to suggest our first area of debate:

"Stakes levels" and a formular in which they can grow in the coming seasons.


Respectfully, Jim.

And to get the ball rolling on said "Stakes" issue:

An across the board 10% rise in ALL stakes as of 1st August 2008.

A R100k 'Stake' for 2yr old maidens within P - the relevent percentage in GC.

A 'long term plan to raise all stakes to represent one win and a third place
= One years keep.

Jim.

Well, that takes care of spending the money.

Now given that +80% of the money you are spending on the rich folks comes from the poor folks at the off-course totes, how about the Ronald MacDonald's cleanliness policy to toilets at these joints where racing's customers are in squalor?

At least lets link 'a years keep per win' to 'a decent place to piss'.

Why should stakes be a priority?

Trainers don't have enough stabling for their owners' horses.
There seem to be more owners (horses) than can be accommodated.
In an over-supply situation stakes should come down, not go up.

Where it concerns stakes, the question must be asked 'why do people want to own horses?'.
I'd say owning horses is like buying tickets in a lottery, hoping for the big one.

Mordaunt Milner once said owning a horse is like having a yacht or a mistress - enjoy the ride but don't expect a financial return.

A good few years ago I did a survey for the Cape OTA, to try and find out what owner's priorities were.
Stakes came some way down the list.

JD, with respect the first issue in regard to this thread is 'Stakes' distribution - and rather then go off on all kinds of directions and thereby 'divide/dilute' said discussion, I suggest you start another thread in regard that issue.

As said above, lets try and gain a concensus on the various issues and refrain from the personal attacks and such to present to the RA so that they can go forward with a comprehensive 'mandate' for the Industry as a whole.

Respectfully, Jim.

Very interesting Karel.

So you'd 'reduce' stakes - and to what level would you sugest?

I also find it interesting with the reference to "Yacht's and Mistress's".

Certainly seems against all that the 'Racing Trust and RA' are set up for.

Still it's your opinion, and your entitled to it - however, I don't think many will agree that 'less is more' in regard of the 'Stakes levels' issues.

Respectfully, Jim.

With respect Karl, I am not so sure that there is an 'over-supply'; I assume you are basing your statement on the situation in the Cape; does anyone have any figures for Gauteng and KZN (and PE)?

Jim

Don't forget that ownership is still fairly ' exclusive ' amongst the millions that support horseracing and I believe that maybe the majority should be taken into account.

An increase in stakes means nothing to those people sitting in off course totes, so why not keep stakes where they are ( or maybe a small increase ), and get the tote to take only 20% of betting turnover instead of the current 25. In this case, everyone would be happier, including owners and of course, punters.

Doubt whether the feeling is shared by everyone, but put it in perspective ... an extra 5% on tote dividends, which may not sound much but it's all relative.

Hi Jim

I understand that you want to get momentum going and a grass roots move to increase stakes.

But you choose 'stakes' as your banner, but you don't address fundamental problems. It's like you have decided there is a 'stakes' crisis, rather than the wages paid to grooms or Tote staff, or training facilities.

It is relevant to point out that if you were the CEO of RacingSA.Inc, that raising the stakes tomorrow would not be putting out a 'fire'. There seems to be a shortage of races rather than racehorses. Noms are at a screaming high.

Stakes should go up and will in the course of events, there is no evidence at all that it's causing a problem for "racing". I hope the emphasis is to beaf up the plate races at the expense of handicaps.

Racing operators should be drumming up business it is true, but that is more punters and punting...not more owners and horses. It will NEVER be the owners that fill the stands, they hang out in boxes and around tables.

There is a limited amount of money available.
Putting up prize money goes at the expense of 'something else' (whatever that is).
There needs to be a list of priorities to be able to come to a sensible decision.

Of course, the amount of money avaialable is a function of turnover.
Increase turnover, and you'll be able to spend more.

Increase turnover by getting punters to spend more, and/or by getting more punters.

Spending more can be achieved by having easy races early on the card (money is lost less quickly by the majority, and churn factor ensures higher turnover for the day).
It also means fine tuning the balance between easy races and difficult ones (handicaps) - you want everyone to win as often as possible (favourites arrive), but you also want a number of upset at a big price.

Getting more punters is a lot more difficult.
There must be many ways that lead to Rome.
For one, racing's information systems are not user friendly, and the total basket of information grossly inadequate.
New people must be intrigued, not scared off.

jack dash if you think local owners are not concerned about the poor stakes then your head is buried in the sand..the latest results from the 2 sales have shown that besides adownturn in economy the stakes are a major problem in owning horses today..as numerous people have said before that 10 years ago a win paid a years keep but today it barely covers 6 mths

kill two birds with one stone. reduce the tote take out from 25% to 20%, and punters will anyway spend more: it is an economic fact. as punters spend more then as a direct function of the current stakes formula, stakes will go up.