What does it cost run a race meeting in South Africa 2019

Run of the mill meeting no Sponsors

9 races avg 100k per race. 900K

12 horses per race. 1200 per jockey 14400 per race. 130k

Stipes, Handlers, vets, starter. guess 50k total.

i exclude groundsman,security,Tote, catering these are all running costs or seperate companies.

what does P need to take Before taxes etc to run a profitabe meeting?

the above costs for say 250 meetings a year are around 275 million. excluded KZN stand alone meetings

Other income streams 4500 Owners registrations per annum.
other admin fees. Fines etc

Sponsorships

TV Rights

Transport fees

increase gambling thru better marketing of ur betting products. paid space in Nationals, Paid airtime on national TV

GC should offer P 1 rand for the lot and create a true national NFP vehicle.

Racing can be saved.

GC offer P? Was it not P been bailing them out

Sure i read that all meetings during the week lose money

Bob
Given the current tote turnover, Racing runs at a big loss every raceday. So, when we DO NOT race in GC, we make a profit, as we do not pay stakes and staff the course. So, with Phum running the rest of the meetings, GC gets more of a reprieve than Phum, on a day to day or weekly basis. The shortfall in cost of Sales, Stakes etc, is made up from the Overseas Sales of Tellytrack and Sports Betting income. Without these, we would be racing for a pie and a coke. One of the many problems facing Phum on the road ahead is that the Dividends of the RA shares in Phum, go to stakes. Thats gone, so too, the 3 percent from Bookies taxes.

In my limited and humble opinion, I have just been aghast at our total lack of trying to actually feed the cow which feeds us, or at the very least, to retain the feed source that we have to sustain the cow that we are milking, namely the tote, over the years.

We just open our mouths to change feet, it seems. What we have done, is to totally ignore the Punter and his/her needs. We have over complicated an already complicated betting system and we have driven only one mindset in two forms - the big days and the big payouts. We forget the rest of the year....80/20 ratios spring to mind. The Punter feels largely ignored and without value to Racing. We forget, that the huge payouts are great but that the small wins are just as important, when these occur regularly. These will bring Punters back, time and again and not just once a year... what we have done is to make it very difficult to win often whilst we grow the "us and them" situation and give a "take it or leave it" impression.

Enter Hollywood, as an example. (Hollywood is an example and I use them with respect to the many others out there, eg WSB who have also been brilliant etc etc)

How on Earth did this Company grow to this extent ? What humble resources did they start out with and what massive resources did Racing have at their disposal, to compete with in the Market ? Who fell asleep ? Who ignored the options available? Who was so arrogant that they ignored the Market, the changes and the needs of the Market ? Who woke up with a jolt and banned Winning Form and Sporting Post from their outlets ? When that happened it was nothing but an admission of defeat which time would confirm.

And then we went to court and cost Racing about R300M , instead of sitting around a table and finding common ground. Some arrogance has no limits...

How does the one end up so far ahead of the other ? Even if they began on level terms, financially, the gap and growth of Hollywood would be phenomenal, compared to the decline of Racing's Tote Turnover.

But, a quick visit to Hollywood will be a huge eye opener for anyone still trapped in the mindset of the tote, as it is. There, the customer feels welcome, is valued. There, many competitions and incentives exist. There, many betting options exist. There, the customer is catered for. There, a vibe exists. There, even though they are not the Operators, they promote Racing. They are mad about Racing, own and race about 60 horses, sponsor Trainers, come racing. I wonder how many horses are owned and raced by the Phum Executive staff ? (Down here they all own and race)

Can we say the same about the tote, in terms of Punters ? Are they valued ? Is there the same vibe ? Does the tote promote Racing ?

What Tote? In their wisdom Phumelela closed all the totes in PE with the exception of one, the one located in a dangerous area where there is never any parking available.

In PE, we the punters have now moved to Marshalls and Hollywood. While their establishments are far superior I am concerned about the bigger picture, how are race courses going to survive a further decline in tote turnover? Pity Phumelela Management seems to miss that point.

Louis
U are so right and the way u have written this has to be absolutely factual.
Well done and I wish more people in power would use those of us that understand this business more. There are many forum readers that have more knowledge and common sense than those in power.

Louis I think the one thing is abundantly clear here is that bookmakers offering the Open Bet are not the cause of the rot of the industry in this country as you have proclaimed for all these years ..... you yourself have just lauded 2 operators who both offer the Open Bet, and both of whom have made huge contributions back to the industry via sponsorship, horse ownership etc. How much do you think WSB pays for their on screen betting scroller on Tellytrack ? You think that is paid for out of Open Bet returns ?

I think we're all very well aware that WSB and HW's main revenue generator is not Tote based bets - you take away the Open Bet and I can assure you it will be business as usual for both of them as they come up with new and inventive ways to satisfy the market.

On the flip-side however, you give the entire proceeds and contents of Tote revenue back to the Racing Operators and even with their newly returned riches will still find a way to ultimately destroy it. I'm pretty sure punters would still be bereft of the in-store promos, incentives etc. that bookmakers continue to offer.

Your argument should never have been about how Bookmakers could be allowed to offer the Open Bet, but rather how Racing Operators couldn't manage to get tote machines in every licenced Fixed Odds premises in the country when all bookmakers wanted was an increase in Tote Commissions from 4.5 - 8% for that to have put the wheels in motion. Instead, they were flatly denied and here we are today with bookmakers now getting between 12 and 15% in returns on turnover and P and GC getting zero turnover at all !

You keep on saying that punters are hugely ignored - which I couldn't agree with more - so take the scenario above, which would have then made every Racing consumer, in essence, a customer of P and GC in a premises run by a bookmaker and just like that, every single stakeholder would have benefitted ........

I would imagine part of the HW /GC deal would be to encourage punters in the shops to take the tote option rather than the open bet ?
I see that as a win win situation, plus i also understand that more money goes on lucky numbers and football than horse racing.

Bookmakers need the Tote and the Tote needs bookmakers, its really that simple. Without the show there is no opportunity for anyone to make money out of horse racing which is why the relationship needs to be aligned to grow the sport by concerted efforts by all involved to grow the customer base and the total cake.. Time for arrogance to take a back seat to common sense and for the industry to devise a common vision and shared objectives. Our market has so much potential given the minute footprint that no one should worry about hoarding market share at the expense of another. Racing will only succeed if everyone stands to benefit, not only a select or greedy few.

Too true. I remember in the late 90s when the Greyville on-course bookmakers staged a protest and refused to price up on the race. With 10 minutes to go until the off, the tote win pools were literally zero until the bookmakers started offering betting and the pools grew accordingly.

It was a very big lesson for Tote operators who thought they were the lifeblood of racing and bookmakers were just there for the frills.

Unfortunately, we still have the minority of naive and uneducated who share that sentiment today.

Dave Scott wrote: I would imagine part of the HW /GC deal would be to encourage punters in the shops to take the tote option rather than the open bet ?

Dave I can assure you that no concession has been made by HW with regards laying the Open Bet, nor will any undue promotion of the Tote be evident in their shops. It will be business as usual ..... just that Gold Circle will be R 10 million better off.

If this was anywhere else in the world, an industry operator taking money from a service provider offering the same Intellectual Property for what could quite easily be construed as a pay-off would be regarded as questionable, but such is the state of this industry that it is actually being regarded as a lifeline.

how ironic that for years abc ers have told gc and p what punters needs are and we know what their reaction was

As a start, three simple things, that have likely been mentioned before, that can be done:

- If any horse is scratched at the start by the vet, it should count for any exotic that has already started rather than the punter being given the new favourite that they likely didn't want / have...if it is a "system" issue, fix the system, don't prejudice the punter...

- The lotto type payouts may appeal to some punters but once one of those is won, that money is not going to return to the pools...lots of small wins will return money to the pools...
And those big wins are likely won by those that are 'in the know" who can go short in some legs and load up in others...all that it does is re-inforce the feeling of crookedness and taking money from the smaller punter who is not "in the know"...

- 50/1 horses, that have a racing record, winning maidens is just not on...winning a handicap is partly understandable but not a level weight race...it is no longer the "brain game"...one might as well throw darts or do a lucky draw to pick numbers...