Thinking Twice

This is an off-shoot of the discussion under the heading 'Thanks Tellytrack'.
Scotia published comments takes from the Phumelela website, showing where the money goes.

Scotia's quote from the P.-website ends with "The message is clear – owners seeking higher prize money and those who love the sport need to think twice before betting fixed odds or taking open bets with fixed-odds operators".

How quaint.
Racing operators have created a virtual monopoly, whereby (legally) only they can stage racemeetings, and only they can operate a Tote.
Their business carries no betting related risk.
Their primary focus appears to be on returns for the shareholders, and prize money for owners.
Their focus appears not to be on providing service and facilities to punters.


Compare this to bookmakers.
They run a high-risk business ( which equates with higher returns if successful).
Their focus is on providing superior odds, service and facilities for their customers, the punters.
If they fail in this they will lose their business.
It is sink or swim.

Interestingly, racing operators have acquired a large stake in a prominent chain of bookmakers.
Racing operators also control the dissemination of racing information and, with two notable exceptions (Winning Form, Sporting Post), control the publication of dedicated racing information to punters (TellyTrack, Computaform, Racing Express, daily newspapers).

Maybe a consortium of bookmakers should be allowed to operate a Tote and to stage racemeetings.
That might create to ultimate competitive environment from which punters and owners can only benefit.

My bet is that the racing operators would never allow this.
This bet is now open for discussion.

Anyone can start any business they like..as long as they get approval from gambling board surely??

Good evening guys, not against the tote, but very seldom use it.

Its ok for exotics, but you need the cream cookies for a fixed price and doubles trebles etc.

Let me throw in another idea?

Let a few heavy punters take a bookies license and use Interbet as a proper exchange punter to punter, would not be so difficult to arrange, then if a punter wants to lay a horse he can do legally?

It could become the same as Betfair, locally and legal, o.k. been for a great lunch, but food for thought?

The gambling board controls all of this - can't find the national bill, but the KZN one states

"No person may hold a race meeting unless that person holds a racecourse operator's licence and such a meeting is held at one or more of the racecourses specified in the licence"

www.kznlegislature.gov.za/Portals/0/bill...dBettingBill2003.pdf

Phumelela and the gambling board are pretty close, so wouldn't imagine anyone else getting a licence in their areas...

Karel, you are a smart guy and I love Sporting Post and your input therein.

But bookmakers are bad for racing UNLESS they contribute significantly to the amount of prize money.

Barry,

Will you explain why out of many, many things that are 'good' for racing, that you so prioritize prize money contribution from that facet of horse racing?

Dear J. D.

Prize money is the single greatest generator of interest in horse racing, whether it is for the owner, the trainer or the jockey.

These funds are very low in South Africa because not enough is being contributed towards "purses" by those that make money from accepting bets on horse races.

A certain portion of the "handle" (money bet) should be earmarked to boost purses.

The more money that is circulated between the owner, trainer and jockeys, the faster the game can grow.

Low prize money is stifling growth in your country.

Preach Brother Barry - prech!

Well said - Jim.

Dear B.I.

Firstly, I admire what you are able to do. I would have 10 in training if I could maybe break even or maybe a small loss . Of course that is unplayable, it's like hoping the casino and it's customers can all win together.

Is prize money the magic bullet? I must disagree with your post above, which I can understand as you are essentially a 'professional' owner and therefore belong to a group of say 1 in 50 (?)...less?

1. Karel posted here somewhere that when he did a survey for an owners' association, stakes issues just managed to to tag onto the bottom of the wish list. It showed that ultimately for most owners that there are many other parts of owning racehorses that was equally or more important to them than the stakes.

2. The people who 'provide' the stakes, those 10's of thousands of spectator players (and who know the form better than most owners) vastly outnumber owner/trainer/jocks don't give one fig about the stakes. They too care more about the racing experience because they certainly lose a shit load of money every year to pay those stakes and taxes (and now dividends too).

The current stakes bill in SA must be about 1/4 Billion Rand. Imagine if you could arrange that (for one year) that there was additional 1/4 Billion and you had a chance to either invest in the infrastructure of racing or double the payout to owners, which do you think would grow the sport?

I don't think the sport needs more owners or horses right now to 'grow'. It needs to secure the interest base which is wondering off daily. Even on this site it shows people who are simultaneously enthusiastic and despondent. For years the main base was almost inherited but now younger people have lives of their own and don't get the 'forced' education to learn the sport as happened in the past.

We are not competing for owners, we are competing for the gambling rand. There was a time when racing was the only game in town, now it has a 20-80 split with casinos, which is why casinos sponsor racing...they stolen many of their punters with great facilities and brain-washing.

Everyone who wants to gamble had to start somewhere. Up till 10 years ago in this country you cut your teeth on horseracing. Not any more, now its either online poker (the world's fastest growing sport) or a casino if you have a car and want to play. They all convert your cash into "credits", dim the lights, and you are off on your way to VIP or MIP status and free drinks, food and weekends to do more.

And now we are paving the way for harness and dog racing..amen.

Barry,

I haven't owned horses for 11 years now,but I can assure you when I did prize money was not my greatest condideration when buying horses.I did it as my hobby,just as others buy boats,4-by-4's etc.I wrote the money off as a loss.I understand why owners want higher stakes,but 'The more money that is circulated between the owner, trainer and jockeys, the faster the game can grow' is an interesting statement.Why specifically those role players?

Well JAP, just shows you how different people can be; I certainly will get out of the owning game if I had to write off the money as a loss. Yes, it as a hobby, but certainly a 'better' one (imo) than having a boat or a 4x4; by owning a horse one at least has a chance some of it back (or even show a profit - as I have been lucky enough to do)

I agree with the sentiments expressed by Barry, but would also be interested in his clarification of the statement ''The more money that is circulated between the owner, trainer and jockeys, the faster the game can grow'

Growing the stakes certainly can not be bad for the game. Retaining the customers who provide those stakes are also paramount. What I find diffcult to understand (being a novice of lees that 8 years in the game), is why the bookmakers are contributing a lesser percentage to the stakes pot than the tote?

JD says 'We are not competing for owners, we are competing for the gambling rand'; so why should we not try to encourage that the 'gambling rand' is spent on the tote, which in theory should grow the stakes pot which can't be a bad thing?

There is no question, absolutely no doubt, that the biggest earners in the game are the owners of successful stallions.

Jet Master, Fort Wood and Western Winter total 126 yearlings on the National Sales coming up. The value of service fees of 53 Jet Masters currently is R10 million, although he covers almost double that, equivalent to R20 million.

Sangster's book showed how he realised that buying the 10 most expensive yearlings to fluke a Nijinsky or Sadler's Wells was just like owning the football pools, hence his partnership with O'Brien and Lester Piggot.

Even though I breed the occassional horse, bigger prize money will generate more aexpensive horses to chase that prize money, but that's not good for "racing".

You guys better decide what "racing" is, and if you think it revolves solely around the owner you are wrong.

Owners are passionate about racing and not stakes. If it's about stakes for an owner, his days are numbered.

While we make nice lounges for owners, our punters are going to the nice lounges at the casino.

While our owners have the nice metal badges at the races, our punters have "Most Valued Guest" badges at the casion.

I can see how this war is gonna finish.