OK was Sea the Stars the best ever?

Now the champ has gone and what a shame as a 3 year old same as Zarkava last year, its difficult to say when retirement comes early, but here is some info, have your say?

Sea The Stars is a great but not best we've seen?

A great horse is a rarity who is far above the usual run of champions and would be supreme in most years. There have been only five such paragons on the Flat in Europe in the last dozen years – in chronological order, Daylami, Montjeu, Dubai Millennium, Sakhee and Sea The Stars.

Sea The Stars belongs comfortably in that company because he has put up at least one performance which can be identified as that of a great champion.

It is therefore not an insult to say that he cannot compare with Sea-Bird, Ribot and Mill Reef, the three best 1m4f horses to race in Europe since World War II – especially as his best two performances have come at 1m2f.

Sea The Stars’s exact place in the equine pantheon depends on how greatness in the thoroughbred is measured. There is a big difference between the majority, who assess horsessuperficially, according to the prestige of the races they have won, and those who judge them by the only criterion that matters: quality of performance, which is best measured by means of ratings.

Racing Post Ratings (RPRs) have been compiled since 1988, and in that time the best 1m4f figures have been achieved by Generous (137), Peintre Celebre (137) and Montjeu (136).

In the 1999 book A Century of Champions, using a scale which was probably a couple of pounds higher than the RPR scale, Tony Morris and I ranked the 200 best Flat horses in the world since 1900.

Our top-rated post-war European 1m4f champions were Sea-Bird (145), Ribot (143), Mill Reef (141) and Nijinsky, Dancing Brave, Vaguely Noble and Shergar (all 140).

These lists omit Brigadier Gerard, Daylami and Dubai Millennium, who excelled over shorter distances, and Sea The Stars himself, whose two best RPRs have been achieved in the Irish Champion Stakes (138) and the Eclipse (135), both over 1m2f.

However the calculations are made, super-champions sprint away from top-class rivals and crush them by wide margins in a way that Sea The Stars never has.

Ribot won his second Arc in 1956 when beating Britain’s champion three-year-old Talgo by an official distance of six lengths (photos show it was eight or nine lengths); Sea-Bird equalled that record margin in the 1965 Arc when trouncing the strongest international field ever assembled for one race; and Mill Reef raced home by three lengths in 1971.

Sea The Stars’s most ardent supporters argue that ratings do not do him justice, but the bottom line is that he cannot be given credit for what he has not achieved.

Assessment of Sea The Stars is further complicated by the fact that, with the exception of Sakhee, he is unique among great Arc winners in winning the race with a performance below his best. Youmzain, Cavalryman and Conduit fought it out for second place behind him, and they are not within two lengths of being great champions.

Youmzain and Conduit both gave 8lb to Sea The Stars – so are they inferior to him at all?

Sea The Stars’s reputation is secure, but reputations are based partially on popularity and hype and can therefore be misleading.

Sir Ivor, Nashwan, Rock Of Gibraltar and others are often described as great champions without having achieved a single performance good enough to justify that reputation. On the other hand, Vaguely Noble, Alleged, Sakhee and other great Arc winners seldom get the credit they deserve.

All of us racing fans get carried away with enthusiasm in the heat of the moment – that is part of being a fan – but it is the function of a historian to place current events in their proper perspective, and to provide an antidote to hype.

People believe what they want to believe, but some of the hype surrounding Sea The Stars’s Arc victory bordered on the hysterical, being uttered by people who seemed to think that racing started in 1990.

Forinstance, the BBC’s TV coverage contained these remarks: “That is one of the greatest sporting performances in any field in any part of the world that you will ever, ever see . . . We may have seen the greatest ever . . . This is truly the horse of a lifetime . . . This is the best horse I think we’ll ever see.”

American or Japanese observers who saw Sea The Stars for the first time in the Arc, and heard comments like that, must have wondered if they had been watching the same race.

We will never know how good he was,don`t think Mick Kinane ever had to get to the bottom of him?

Everytime he hit the front he supposedly felt he had done enough/idled,hard to say he is 10lb better than the American superstars? who does the worldwide rankings europeans?

I think he was one of the best ever, the fact that he won the arc to 135 means nothing. He won the Arc ofter pulling for his head for 600m and i reckon he could have won further if he wa that type of horse. he just was not that type of horse. For me Ghostzapper's win in the breeders cup was visually one of the most impressive victorys i have ever seen by a horse but i reckon See The Stars would have had his measure.

Dubai Millenium's victory in the QE2 stakes was also visually very impressive but yet again i think See The Stars would have had his measure.

Hawk Wings victory in the Lockinge was very impressive and yet again i think he would have had his measure

Now comes the hard bit

I make it very close between Rock Of Gibraltar and See The Stars over 1600m
I Make it very close between and Hurricane Run and See the Stars over 2400m

Hibs I agree with you that we will never know but I have to throw in a few extra comments here to the write of this article.

I do agree that performances in major races is what makes a horse great but if you want to do a FULL analisys of the horse then you should look at racing style, conformation, demeanor and actual race performances!
I certainly was not around when any of the older brigade ran so I don't know how good Sea-Bird was or Vaguely noble or any of those other horses was but what I do know is what I can see with my own eyes. This horse is visually DOMINATING! He runs with such ease and dispatches of his opponents without engaing top gear EVER!!!!

I respect all the older horses from the past and agree that they were super animals but they also did not have to run against horses who are bred in the purple, have better medication, are on better feeds and are in all probability run under superior conditions/conditioning..................

Say what they will and to each man his own. For my money I will never see a more complete racehorse with the perfect breeding, perfect conformation and perfect temprament. I hope he makes a HUGE impression on the breeding world and shows all the doubting Thomas's who is the BOSS!!!!

Sea the Stars for President!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL

Its always difficult to make a call over a time period.

Was it Ali or Marciano?

When was the best music, late 60's early 70's YES!

So its probably your own memories of the time, so for me only one

MILL REEF

To brighten your morning, great video!

I must be missing something.

I must be the only racing man that is not convinced about this one's greatness.

Obviously he is a top horse. One cannot do what he did and not be a top horse.

But one for the ages?

Not for me.

Sorry.

I have seen the truly great ones and they had an extra dimension that I never saw in this horse.

I agree with you Barry.For me Sea Cottage would have had him for breakfast or any other horse in the world ,be it 60s, 70s or 2009. Some even greater horses are not even mentioned by scotia like Secretariat and Giants causeway.Just my view though.

Sea Cottage?????

lol

I am glad its just your view.

Mill reef???

I can't agree with the doubters out there.

Sea the Stars has won over distances ranging from a mile to 2400 metres and whats more he has beaten a host of group 1 winners in every victory. I think the doubters are underestimating the quality of the opposition this year which I think has been unbelievably strong. Mastercraftsman, Delegator, Rip Van Winkle, Conduit and plenty others are brilliant horses in their own right and Sea the Stars has put them all to sleep many times over.

Aiden O Brien reckons Rip Van Winkel is one of the best he has ever trained and Sea the Stars was toying with him in the Eclipse. I think Aiden knows a good one when he sees it. Remember the Rip murdered Paco Boy in the Sussex stakes, whom Barry Irwin referred to as a freak.

The pundits can say what they like about his Arc win but for me Sea the Stars was not in the race with 400 to go but finished it off at the furlong pole, he went past proven Group 1 winners like they were standing still!

All a horse can do is beat the field in front of them and I would say that winning 6 Grade 1's in 6 months against probably the world's best with consummate ease does not constitute hype, I would say greatness is the correct description.

Lets see how the UK horses fare in the Breeders Cup. To my mind they will clean up against the drugged up, Lasix fuelled Americans.

Barry, who would you put your money on?!

For me two horse stick out and both were trained by the maestro Vincent O'Brien.
El Gran Senor although he was found out in the Derby but more so was a certain Sadlers Wells who also proved himself at stud.

Today was another bit of proof for me......

Look at how many horses that run behind Sea the Stars in big handicaps this season have come out and won after.

Today at Newmarket there was a horse called "Steel Tango" who could not get within 40 lengths of STS last time and the time before that he finished close to 15 lengths behind the champ....Today he won a group 3. This may not be saying that much but the field was pretty competative none the less.

How many horses have come out from behind STS and won good races!!

I believe the form of the races he has won is a LOT stronger than people give them credit for!!

Like I mentioned before there are many factors to be taken into account when you consider "THE BEST", but for me only what I can "SEA" counts!!!

Nuff Said!!