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RUSSIA/UKRAINE
- bayern
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Re: Re:Re:Re:Re:RUSSIA/UKRAINE
3 years 3 months agoInvading any country, whatever the pretext or alleged noble intention, is wrong...so Putin and Russia will live with the consequences that flow...
Let's not forget NATO's role in this...their expansionist goals of trying to get the former USSR states into NATO would allow Russian foes to be at their doorstep and could be considered intimidatory...Putin likely thought it best that to have Ukraine under Russian control maintained a buffer...
Many talk about the Russian invasion of Crimea in 2014...linked to that event and just prior to that the US had supported the overthrow of the Russian friendly Ukranian government...the current Ukranian government and oligarchs act as a laudromat for US foreign aid...supposedly to protect them against the Russians but some / most of it makes it way back to the Democrats (Exhibit A being Bagman Hunter Biden's role on the board of Burisma) and some Republicans in the form of "donations"...any different to the ANC ensuring tenders go to pre-determined companies and persons on the understanding that they make "donations" to the ANC...
Violence is the failure of the intellect and none of the parties are displaying any intellect...
TN, do you honestly believe that Hunter Biden's role on the Board of Burisma triggered this invasion? I confess not being informed as you.
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- TNaicker
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Re: Re:Re:Re:Re:RUSSIA/UKRAINE
3 years 3 months ago
No, it did not trigger the invasion...
When BHO was president in 2014 and Killary was Secretary of State, they supported the removal of the Russian-allied president so that a US friendly one could be installed...gave the new government aid and assistance to supposedly defend itself against Russia but some / a lot of this money went to the oligarchs and back to the US to Democrats and Republicans as "donations". Interestingly / coincidentally, Hunter Biden got onto the board of Burisma (one of the oligarchs) after the 2014 removal of the Russian-allied president...those areas of Ukraine, especially to the east, are pro-Russia and do not want to be under the US puppet led presidents that have treated them harshly in the post 2014 period hence the civil war in those areas for separation...now with Russian support, they are declaring autonomy...and Russia, on the pretence of those separatists asking for help, have gone into those areas...
The first casualty of war is always the truth...some-one will claim they are responding to an attack when they could be the real instigators...no-one but the real culprits will now the truth...narratives and optics will dictate rather than truth and honesty...
When BHO was president in 2014 and Killary was Secretary of State, they supported the removal of the Russian-allied president so that a US friendly one could be installed...gave the new government aid and assistance to supposedly defend itself against Russia but some / a lot of this money went to the oligarchs and back to the US to Democrats and Republicans as "donations". Interestingly / coincidentally, Hunter Biden got onto the board of Burisma (one of the oligarchs) after the 2014 removal of the Russian-allied president...those areas of Ukraine, especially to the east, are pro-Russia and do not want to be under the US puppet led presidents that have treated them harshly in the post 2014 period hence the civil war in those areas for separation...now with Russian support, they are declaring autonomy...and Russia, on the pretence of those separatists asking for help, have gone into those areas...
The first casualty of war is always the truth...some-one will claim they are responding to an attack when they could be the real instigators...no-one but the real culprits will now the truth...narratives and optics will dictate rather than truth and honesty...
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- bayern
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE
3 years 3 months ago
TN, the Ukraine is a sovereign country and is allowed to join any Alliance they wish. They, neither NATO have threatened Russia from within the Ukraine border, not being a policy expert myself, not sure why Putin feels or should feel threatened.
The ramifications of this invasion will be felt across the Globe.
For me, the take-away from this, if Putin/Russia is allowed to get away with this unscathed, Taiwan you next (invasion from China).
The ramifications of this invasion will be felt across the Globe.
For me, the take-away from this, if Putin/Russia is allowed to get away with this unscathed, Taiwan you next (invasion from China).
Guessing has never been widely acclaimed as a good gambling strategy.
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- mikesack
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE
3 years 3 months ago - 3 years 3 months ago
RUSSIA TO THE US............................YOUR AGGRESSION STOPS HERE !
A lot of ink has been spilled lately on whether or not the USA and its NATO alliance promised the USSR that NATO would not expand into the space evacuated by the withdrawal of the Red Army from Europe. It is clear those promises were repeatedly made and clear they were repeatedly broken. There is no historical dispute. Claims to the contrary are propaganda to excuse NATO’s aggressive strategy against Russia.
The Americans and their satellites states go further and claim a right to expand their alliance, but on what legal, moral or security grounds this right is based they cannot say. They claim that nations have the right to join NATO of their own free will, but this again is a distortion of the facts. The NATO Treaty states that accession to the Treaty is by invitation only. So there is no right of any nation to freely choose to join NATO. That is a decision ultimately controlled by NATO, by the United States in fact, not the nation seeking to join. This contradiction in their propaganda is never addressed. Nor do they answer why, of all nations, Russia’s request to join was rejected. But the meaning of the rejection was clear at the time and is clear now.
The contradiction is never addressed because that would lead to questions on the methods used by NATO to obtain the requests by countries to join in the first place; which in turn would lead to an examination of the threats, intimidation, bribery, and extortion used to coax these otherwise peaceful nations, with no apparent or real enemy facing them, to join an American controlled military machine.
All this begs the question why the Americans want to expand their military alliance into those countries. There is only one possible answer, not as a means of defence, as they claim, but as preparation for aggression, which they have been conducting against Russia openly now since NATO attacked, without any justification whatsoever, the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia in 1999 gained control of the Balkan states and built its biggest military base, Camp Bondsteel, threatening Russia’s southwest flank.
The economic warfare has been constant since then, disguised as “sanctions” accompanied by hostile diplomatic moves, provocations along Russia’s borders, from Georgia to the Baltic, from the Black Sea to the Pacific all accompanied by a constant barrage of anti-Russian propaganda. The NATO aggression and invasion of Libya can be seen as part of their strategy to control the Mediterranean and the oil supplies in North Africa, to cause insecurity to Egypt, and the world has not forgotten their invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan, and, Syria, where American forces still refuse to leave, a fact ignored by the western media and politicians complaining about alleged threats of “Russian aggression.”
The Americans and their allies in NATO are the experts of hypocrisy, for not only do their constant aggressions violate all international law, including, inter alia, the UN Charter, and the Nuremberg Principles, their actions are also in absolute violation of NATO’s own treaty.
Article 1 of the NATO Treaty states,
‘The Parties undertake, as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.’
The USA and its NATO satellites are not attempting to settle disputes with Russia (or China for that matter) by peaceful means. Instead they are using the entire spectrum of hybrid warfare, total warfare, against Russia. Yet no NATO member nation has demanded of NATO that the alliance and its members comply with Article 1. None of them demand that it complies with the stated adherence to the UN Charter.
The NATO alliance is also in contravention of Article 7 and 8, which state,
‘Article 7
This Treaty does not affect, and shall not be interpreted as affecting in any way the rights and obligations under the Charter of the Parties which are members of the United Nations, or the primary responsibility of the Security Council for the maintenance of international peace and security.
“A War Between Ukraine and the People’s Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk, with Russia Forced to Intervene”?
Article 8
Each Party declares that none of the international engagements now in force between it and any other of the Parties or any third State is in conflict with the provisions of this Treaty, and undertakes not to enter into any international engagement in conflict with this Treaty.’
The contradiction between the NATO Treaty and the security architecture created by the UN Charter is clear. Chapter VII of the Charter governs all nations with respect to international security. There can be no legal basis for the establishment of any military alliances such as NATO whose clear political objectives are aggression and American hegemony over the world.
Article 8 requires NATO member nations not to enter into any international “engagement’ in conflict with this Treaty. Yet they had already done so becoming members of the United Nations. So, not only is the NATO Treaty a violation of the UN Charter, in fact, a negation of it, its own members are in violation of the NATO Treaty by being members of the UN.
In consequence, the Americans and their allies have, to all intents and purposes, abandoned the United Nations as the final arbiter of international security and now promote their private club of aggressors as its replacement, not to establish peace, but to conduct war.
The NATO Treaty is not the only document to be considered. There is the Kellogg-Briand Pact of 1928 which states,
“Article 1
The High Contracting parties solemnly declare in the names of their respective peoples that they condemn recourse to war for the solution of international controversies, and renounce it, as an instrument of national policy in their relations with one another.”
“Article II
The High contracting parties agree that the settlement or solution of all disputes or conflicts of whatever nature or of whatever origin they may be, which may arise among them, shall never be sought except by pacific means.”
The Kellogg–Briand Pact, otherwise known as the General Treaty For Renunciation of War As An Instrument of National Policy, signed by many nations, including the USA and its NATO members and the USSR, is still in force as established by this exchange in the British House of Commons on December 16, 2013.
‘Steve Baker: To ask the Attorney-General if he will make an assessment of whether the General Treaty for Renunciation of War as an Instrument of National Policy remains binding on the UK.
The Solicitor-General: I am advised by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office that the General Treaty for the Renunciation of War as an Instrument of National Policy (also known as the Kellogg-Briand Pact) remains in force and that the United Kingdom remains a party.’
Of course despite this being a fundamental element of international law, the United States of America has engaged in continuous warfare as an instrument of national policy since the date they signed it.
Russia has acted consistently in accordance with international law and humanity in response to the American threats and actions but is met with the boorish behaviour and insults of thugs.
Earlier this year President Putin sent to the American president a proposal for a Treaty which would guarantee the peace in Europe. The offer was rejected out of hand by the Americans who played games with the text and offered to negotiate on peripheral items, while ignoring Russia’s demands that NATO cease its expansion, withdraw American nuclear weapons from Europe, dismantle the bases and equipment it has placed all over eastern Europe in preparation for war on Russia and agree not to place missile systems close to Russia’s borders.
In further reply to the Russian request to negotiate a Treaty, the Americans hyped up their propaganda against Russia and now provoke its puppets in Kiev to mount an offensive against the Donbass Republics. The result the world now sees as civilians are attacked by artillery bombardments, a war crime in itself, resulting in the evacuation of large numbers of people from the Republics into Russia. This mass movement of refugees is hardly mentioned in the western press, nor that it is due to their actions; nor the attempted assassination of Donbass leaders.
The Russian Duma voted last week to recommend to the President that the Republics be recognised as sovereign states. On Monday, February 21st President Putin, also acting on the request of the Donbass Republics, and the recommendation of the Russian Security Council, made the momentous and logical decision to do exactly that. The Minsk Agreements, though supported by Russia, were being impeded and sabotaged by some European nations, by the Kiev regime and the USA. They were at a dead end. The recognition by Russia was immediately followed by the signing of agreements of mutual cooperation between Russia and the Republics. The meaning and importance of this is obvious to everyone and will be seen clearly in the coming days. NATO and the US of course condemned the decision, though their recognition of the Serbian province of Kosovo as an independent state after they attacked Yugoslavia, occupied Kosovo and tore it out of the heart of Serbia, set the precedent; they have no right to complain about anything.
President Putin’s recent meetings with President Macron of France are a positive development as well as his talks with the new German Chancellor. In France, almost every party from the communists to the far right and everyone in between are calling for France to leave NATO and state Russia is the friend of France. Macron plays both sides against the middle but he knows which way the wind blows, and so is very active in order to be seen as a voice of reason and peace in Europe.
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The French are also angry with the Americans over the submarine fiasco, in which the Americans kicked the French in the teeth by getting the Australians to cancel their purchase of French submarines to be replaced with American submarines, while the Germans see that the Americans, who still have occupation forces in Germany, are set on forcing them to buy expensive US liquefied gas, of doubtful supply, instead of the cheaper, secure supplies of Russian gas promised by the NordStream 2 pipeline.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
In its reply to the Americans, handed to their ambassador in Moscow on February 17, Russia stated that,
“In the absence of the readiness of the American side to agree on firm, legally binding guarantees to ensure our security from the United States and its allies, Russia will be forced to respond, including through the implementation of military-technical measures.”
This has the Americans in a panic, which may partly account for the hysteria of their propaganda because they have no idea what those military-technical measures will be. We can though look at the actions taken to date to have some idea of the possibilities, with the Chief of the Russian Defence Staff travelling to Syria to meet with President Assad, and the transfer of Russian advanced bombers and jet fighters to their bases in Syria. This has implications for control of the Mediterranean as well the illegal, and brutal occupation of Syrian territory by American forces. In the past week Russian military exercises have wound down in Crimea and region but continue in Belarus and President Putin himself is reported to have overseen nuclear force drills the past several days. The US has been placed on notice; your aggression stops here.
In regard to the situation in Ukraine the Russian document states,
‘To de-escalate the situation around Ukraine, it is fundamentally important to take the following steps. These are forcing Kiev to implement a set of measures, stopping the supply of weapons to Ukraine, withdrawing all Western advisers and instructors from there, refusing NATO countries from any joint exercises with the Armed Forces of Ukraine and withdrawing all previously delivered Kiev of foreign weapons outside the Ukrainian territory.
In this regard, we draw attention to the fact that Russian President Vladimir Putin, at a press conference following the talks in Moscow with French President Emmanuel Macron on February 7, 2022, stressed that we are open to dialogue and call for “thinking about stable security conditions for all, equal for all participants in international life.
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Once again, Russia wants peace. Europe wants peace. But the United States wants its way and is willing to go to war. But if they go down that road, it will be their final act of aggression because as I wrote above, the Russians, have, as do the Chinese and North Koreans, now told the Americans, “we want peace, and are willing to achieve it, but your aggression stops here.’
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*
Christopher Black is an international criminal lawyer based in Toronto. He is known for a number of high-profile war crimes cases and recently published his novel Beneath the Clouds. He writes essays on international law, politics and world events,
A lot of ink has been spilled lately on whether or not the USA and its NATO alliance promised the USSR that NATO would not expand into the space evacuated by the withdrawal of the Red Army from Europe. It is clear those promises were repeatedly made and clear they were repeatedly broken. There is no historical dispute. Claims to the contrary are propaganda to excuse NATO’s aggressive strategy against Russia.
The Americans and their satellites states go further and claim a right to expand their alliance, but on what legal, moral or security grounds this right is based they cannot say. They claim that nations have the right to join NATO of their own free will, but this again is a distortion of the facts. The NATO Treaty states that accession to the Treaty is by invitation only. So there is no right of any nation to freely choose to join NATO. That is a decision ultimately controlled by NATO, by the United States in fact, not the nation seeking to join. This contradiction in their propaganda is never addressed. Nor do they answer why, of all nations, Russia’s request to join was rejected. But the meaning of the rejection was clear at the time and is clear now.
The contradiction is never addressed because that would lead to questions on the methods used by NATO to obtain the requests by countries to join in the first place; which in turn would lead to an examination of the threats, intimidation, bribery, and extortion used to coax these otherwise peaceful nations, with no apparent or real enemy facing them, to join an American controlled military machine.
All this begs the question why the Americans want to expand their military alliance into those countries. There is only one possible answer, not as a means of defence, as they claim, but as preparation for aggression, which they have been conducting against Russia openly now since NATO attacked, without any justification whatsoever, the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia in 1999 gained control of the Balkan states and built its biggest military base, Camp Bondsteel, threatening Russia’s southwest flank.
The economic warfare has been constant since then, disguised as “sanctions” accompanied by hostile diplomatic moves, provocations along Russia’s borders, from Georgia to the Baltic, from the Black Sea to the Pacific all accompanied by a constant barrage of anti-Russian propaganda. The NATO aggression and invasion of Libya can be seen as part of their strategy to control the Mediterranean and the oil supplies in North Africa, to cause insecurity to Egypt, and the world has not forgotten their invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan, and, Syria, where American forces still refuse to leave, a fact ignored by the western media and politicians complaining about alleged threats of “Russian aggression.”
The Americans and their allies in NATO are the experts of hypocrisy, for not only do their constant aggressions violate all international law, including, inter alia, the UN Charter, and the Nuremberg Principles, their actions are also in absolute violation of NATO’s own treaty.
Article 1 of the NATO Treaty states,
‘The Parties undertake, as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.’
The USA and its NATO satellites are not attempting to settle disputes with Russia (or China for that matter) by peaceful means. Instead they are using the entire spectrum of hybrid warfare, total warfare, against Russia. Yet no NATO member nation has demanded of NATO that the alliance and its members comply with Article 1. None of them demand that it complies with the stated adherence to the UN Charter.
The NATO alliance is also in contravention of Article 7 and 8, which state,
‘Article 7
This Treaty does not affect, and shall not be interpreted as affecting in any way the rights and obligations under the Charter of the Parties which are members of the United Nations, or the primary responsibility of the Security Council for the maintenance of international peace and security.
“A War Between Ukraine and the People’s Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk, with Russia Forced to Intervene”?
Article 8
Each Party declares that none of the international engagements now in force between it and any other of the Parties or any third State is in conflict with the provisions of this Treaty, and undertakes not to enter into any international engagement in conflict with this Treaty.’
The contradiction between the NATO Treaty and the security architecture created by the UN Charter is clear. Chapter VII of the Charter governs all nations with respect to international security. There can be no legal basis for the establishment of any military alliances such as NATO whose clear political objectives are aggression and American hegemony over the world.
Article 8 requires NATO member nations not to enter into any international “engagement’ in conflict with this Treaty. Yet they had already done so becoming members of the United Nations. So, not only is the NATO Treaty a violation of the UN Charter, in fact, a negation of it, its own members are in violation of the NATO Treaty by being members of the UN.
In consequence, the Americans and their allies have, to all intents and purposes, abandoned the United Nations as the final arbiter of international security and now promote their private club of aggressors as its replacement, not to establish peace, but to conduct war.
The NATO Treaty is not the only document to be considered. There is the Kellogg-Briand Pact of 1928 which states,
“Article 1
The High Contracting parties solemnly declare in the names of their respective peoples that they condemn recourse to war for the solution of international controversies, and renounce it, as an instrument of national policy in their relations with one another.”
“Article II
The High contracting parties agree that the settlement or solution of all disputes or conflicts of whatever nature or of whatever origin they may be, which may arise among them, shall never be sought except by pacific means.”
The Kellogg–Briand Pact, otherwise known as the General Treaty For Renunciation of War As An Instrument of National Policy, signed by many nations, including the USA and its NATO members and the USSR, is still in force as established by this exchange in the British House of Commons on December 16, 2013.
‘Steve Baker: To ask the Attorney-General if he will make an assessment of whether the General Treaty for Renunciation of War as an Instrument of National Policy remains binding on the UK.
The Solicitor-General: I am advised by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office that the General Treaty for the Renunciation of War as an Instrument of National Policy (also known as the Kellogg-Briand Pact) remains in force and that the United Kingdom remains a party.’
Of course despite this being a fundamental element of international law, the United States of America has engaged in continuous warfare as an instrument of national policy since the date they signed it.
Russia has acted consistently in accordance with international law and humanity in response to the American threats and actions but is met with the boorish behaviour and insults of thugs.
Earlier this year President Putin sent to the American president a proposal for a Treaty which would guarantee the peace in Europe. The offer was rejected out of hand by the Americans who played games with the text and offered to negotiate on peripheral items, while ignoring Russia’s demands that NATO cease its expansion, withdraw American nuclear weapons from Europe, dismantle the bases and equipment it has placed all over eastern Europe in preparation for war on Russia and agree not to place missile systems close to Russia’s borders.
In further reply to the Russian request to negotiate a Treaty, the Americans hyped up their propaganda against Russia and now provoke its puppets in Kiev to mount an offensive against the Donbass Republics. The result the world now sees as civilians are attacked by artillery bombardments, a war crime in itself, resulting in the evacuation of large numbers of people from the Republics into Russia. This mass movement of refugees is hardly mentioned in the western press, nor that it is due to their actions; nor the attempted assassination of Donbass leaders.
The Russian Duma voted last week to recommend to the President that the Republics be recognised as sovereign states. On Monday, February 21st President Putin, also acting on the request of the Donbass Republics, and the recommendation of the Russian Security Council, made the momentous and logical decision to do exactly that. The Minsk Agreements, though supported by Russia, were being impeded and sabotaged by some European nations, by the Kiev regime and the USA. They were at a dead end. The recognition by Russia was immediately followed by the signing of agreements of mutual cooperation between Russia and the Republics. The meaning and importance of this is obvious to everyone and will be seen clearly in the coming days. NATO and the US of course condemned the decision, though their recognition of the Serbian province of Kosovo as an independent state after they attacked Yugoslavia, occupied Kosovo and tore it out of the heart of Serbia, set the precedent; they have no right to complain about anything.
President Putin’s recent meetings with President Macron of France are a positive development as well as his talks with the new German Chancellor. In France, almost every party from the communists to the far right and everyone in between are calling for France to leave NATO and state Russia is the friend of France. Macron plays both sides against the middle but he knows which way the wind blows, and so is very active in order to be seen as a voice of reason and peace in Europe.
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The French are also angry with the Americans over the submarine fiasco, in which the Americans kicked the French in the teeth by getting the Australians to cancel their purchase of French submarines to be replaced with American submarines, while the Germans see that the Americans, who still have occupation forces in Germany, are set on forcing them to buy expensive US liquefied gas, of doubtful supply, instead of the cheaper, secure supplies of Russian gas promised by the NordStream 2 pipeline.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
In its reply to the Americans, handed to their ambassador in Moscow on February 17, Russia stated that,
“In the absence of the readiness of the American side to agree on firm, legally binding guarantees to ensure our security from the United States and its allies, Russia will be forced to respond, including through the implementation of military-technical measures.”
This has the Americans in a panic, which may partly account for the hysteria of their propaganda because they have no idea what those military-technical measures will be. We can though look at the actions taken to date to have some idea of the possibilities, with the Chief of the Russian Defence Staff travelling to Syria to meet with President Assad, and the transfer of Russian advanced bombers and jet fighters to their bases in Syria. This has implications for control of the Mediterranean as well the illegal, and brutal occupation of Syrian territory by American forces. In the past week Russian military exercises have wound down in Crimea and region but continue in Belarus and President Putin himself is reported to have overseen nuclear force drills the past several days. The US has been placed on notice; your aggression stops here.
In regard to the situation in Ukraine the Russian document states,
‘To de-escalate the situation around Ukraine, it is fundamentally important to take the following steps. These are forcing Kiev to implement a set of measures, stopping the supply of weapons to Ukraine, withdrawing all Western advisers and instructors from there, refusing NATO countries from any joint exercises with the Armed Forces of Ukraine and withdrawing all previously delivered Kiev of foreign weapons outside the Ukrainian territory.
In this regard, we draw attention to the fact that Russian President Vladimir Putin, at a press conference following the talks in Moscow with French President Emmanuel Macron on February 7, 2022, stressed that we are open to dialogue and call for “thinking about stable security conditions for all, equal for all participants in international life.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Once again, Russia wants peace. Europe wants peace. But the United States wants its way and is willing to go to war. But if they go down that road, it will be their final act of aggression because as I wrote above, the Russians, have, as do the Chinese and North Koreans, now told the Americans, “we want peace, and are willing to achieve it, but your aggression stops here.’
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*
Christopher Black is an international criminal lawyer based in Toronto. He is known for a number of high-profile war crimes cases and recently published his novel Beneath the Clouds. He writes essays on international law, politics and world events,
Last edit: 3 years 3 months ago by mikesack.
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- cross
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE
3 years 3 months ago
Was never into world politics but one thing that i do know is that Africa will suffer the most.
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- Lionel
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE
3 years 3 months ago
Putin has already threatened any country that intervenes. No one is going to do anything. Taiwan is next - correct Bayern. So too a lot of other countries.
I really feel for the people of Ukraine. I can only imagine what they are going through. First Afghanistan, and now this. The USA used to be the "Leader of the free world". We are now on the threshold of the era of the "Leader of the Captive world".
I really feel for the people of Ukraine. I can only imagine what they are going through. First Afghanistan, and now this. The USA used to be the "Leader of the free world". We are now on the threshold of the era of the "Leader of the Captive world".
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- bayern
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE
3 years 3 months agoPutin has already threatened any country that intervenes. No one is going to do anything. Taiwan is next - correct Bayern. So too a lot of other countries.
I really feel for the people of Ukraine. I can only imagine what they are going through. First Afghanistan, and now this. The USA used to be the "Leader of the free world". We are now on the threshold of the era of the "Leader of the Captive world".
Lionel, if NATO really wanted to fight fire with fire, they would. Think about, NATO has more fire power, troops and spending power than Russia. What the logical people are doing, is trying to avoid the unnecessary loss of life by not retaliating with force.
War is no a good thing.
Guessing has never been widely acclaimed as a good gambling strategy.
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- Lionel
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE
3 years 3 months agoPutin has already threatened any country that intervenes. No one is going to do anything. Taiwan is next - correct Bayern. So too a lot of other countries.
I really feel for the people of Ukraine. I can only imagine what they are going through. First Afghanistan, and now this. The USA used to be the "Leader of the free world". We are now on the threshold of the era of the "Leader of the Captive world".
Lionel, if NATO really wanted to fight fire with fire, they would. Think about, NATO has more fire power, troops and spending power than Russia. What the logical people are doing, is trying to avoid the unnecessary loss of life by not retaliating with force.
War is no a good thing.
Fully agree Bayern. War is a terrible thing. However, sitting back and allowing these invasions to take place for the sake of "saving innocent lives" is not the answer either. This will only embolden these tyrants. This is exactly why the WW2 happened - Chamberlain and his policy of appeasement.
Also bear in mind that Europe relies on Russia for around 40% of its natural gas. It will not be in these countries interest to take on Russia.
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- TNaicker
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE
3 years 3 months agoTN, the Ukraine is a sovereign country and is allowed to join any Alliance they wish. They, neither NATO have threatened Russia from within the Ukraine border, not being a policy expert myself, not sure why Putin feels or should feel threatened.
The ramifications of this invasion will be felt across the Globe.
For me, the take-away from this, if Putin/Russia is allowed to get away with this unscathed, Taiwan you next (invasion from China).
I agree with your first statement...NATO, though, has to invite you and all current members agree to the invitation...
NATO has consistently expanded East towards Russia and then placed military equipment and personnel in those new members...Ukraine would have been a similar satellite...only difference is that it would be on Russia's border...
Agree with your last two statements...and that no good comes from war...
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE
3 years 3 months ago
This was this morning passenger planes giving Ukraine a wide berth
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- bayern
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE
3 years 3 months ago - 3 years 3 months agoTN, the Ukraine is a sovereign country and is allowed to join any Alliance they wish. They, neither NATO have threatened Russia from within the Ukraine border, not being a policy expert myself, not sure why Putin feels or should feel threatened.
The ramifications of this invasion will be felt across the Globe.
For me, the take-away from this, if Putin/Russia is allowed to get away with this unscathed, Taiwan you next (invasion from China).
I agree with your first statement...NATO, though, has to invite you and all current members agree to the invitation...
NATO has consistently expanded East towards Russia and then placed military equipment and personnel in those new members...Ukraine would have been a similar satellite...only difference is that it would be on Russia's border...
Agree with your last two statements...and that no good comes from war...
Russia's economy, as so as things got "loud", the Russian economy showed signs of instability. The Russian banks have had a run on US Dollar withdrawals, to the extent there are no US Dollars to be withdrawn.Signs big enough to notice. For the Western powers, that is an opening. Sanctions will be more than just a punishment. a tool in the fight. The Russian economy is heavy centered on taking things out the ground, and selling, (us South Africans know the downside of this practice - the only thing we don't have is crude oil). A large portion of what is sold is sold to Europe. If the Europeans stood together and absorbed the pain and found a way to offset the cost to the citizen, that would severely damage the Russian economy. The instability that was shown, will be the opening and NATO will take it.The sanctions will probably be more severe than anticipated. It won't be about punishing Russia, it will be about de-stabilising the Russian economy. If the economy falters, then the war can't go on. Russia has large reserves but the Ruble has lost value. The average person in Russia will feel the effects of this long before Putin. As long as NATO is unified, don't listen to Trump, Pompeo, Fox News and the conspiracy theorist (on ABC included), Russia will become a peasant nation again if this war does not stop.
Guessing has never been widely acclaimed as a good gambling strategy.
Last edit: 3 years 3 months ago by bayern.
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- Dave Scott
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE
3 years 3 months ago
Apart from the tragic loss of lives in any war financial markets I am sure plenty uncertainty and oil goes above $100 for first time since 2014.🤧😪👎
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