RUSSIA/UKRAINE

Muhtiman
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago

.Back when Trump was in charge.....this poor Zelensky had Trump pull the rug out from under him when Donald the Doos withheld $400Million in pledged military aid on condition that the Ukrainian find out what the Bidens were doing there.....:ohmy:

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bayern
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago

#836725

If what Russia is doing to Ukraine is not an illegal land grab, then no one on this site has the right to b*tch and moan with what happened in Zimbabwe and in places in South Africa.

What happened in Zim and SA, those were the legal owners of that land forcefully taken from them, Ukraine is a sovereign Country and a bully just says, "i want".

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TNaicker
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago

#836732

Muhtiman wrote:

.Back when Trump was in charge.....this poor Zelensky had Trump pull the rug out from under him when Donald the Doos withheld $400Million in pledged military aid on condition that the Ukrainian find out what the Bidens were doing there.....:ohmy:

Since we have fellow Clanners wanting to push narratives and allegations and interpretations and opinions of what DJT did (when "Corn Pop Joe" was a private citizen, not yet the Democrat nominee and Hunter just so happened to get onto the board of one of the oligarchs in the aftermath of their removal of the not pro-NATO president Yanukovych and the sending of "aid" to Ukraine) , lets up things to a $1 billion quid pro quo...by "Joe"...no interpretation needed though...

Putin and Russia are in the wrong to have invaded a sovereign country and must be condemned for it...

NATO expansion and US using Ukraine as their playground (military aid going to the oligarchs to be re-routed to US as "donations" or co-opting politicians children and other family members) is also wrong and we must not be so blinded that we refuse to see that you don't have to pick up a gun to be aggressive or to be an instigator or to be intimidatory...and then play victim when your actions lead to violent consequences...

NATO border was originally at East Germany after intergration...now it stands at Ukraine...just think about that when assessing what is going on...promises and lies have led to this point...

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bayern
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago

#836734

TN, did Ukraine have an uprising against Russia to become a sovereign nation, or were they allowed to leave, by the USSR, to pursue the right to self-determination. The financial aid is by NATO, not just the USA, the USA probavbly pays more than most in the alliance.

Really not interested in discussing Trump when innocent people are dying and he praises the genius of the aggressor.

By the way, what CNN thing did i post?

Trump is you and Lionel's hero, not mine. The man's a thief.

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bayern
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago

#836735

The West needs to declare Putin a war criminal.

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bayern
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago

#836736

One of the many tragedies of the war :-

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TNaicker
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago

#836739

bayern wrote:

TN, did Ukraine have an uprising against Russia to become a sovereign nation, or were they allowed to leave, by the USSR, to pursue the right to self-determination. The financial aid is by NATO, not just the USA, the USA probavbly pays more than most in the alliance.

Really not interested in discussing Trump when innocent people are dying and he praises the genius of the aggressor.

By the way, what CNN thing did i post?

Trump is you and Lionel's hero, not mine. The man's a thief.

@bayern...DJT is no "hero" of mine...I supported him in 2020 as, as the incumbent, he was the only person in a position to stand against the insane leftist (and far left) policies that have come with "Joe"...we, here in South Africa have seen what leftist policies (yes, the ANC is on the left of the political spectrum) have done to this country...

DJT may be a "thief" and a whole host of other epithets one could throw his way and if anything is true, he should already be in jail or will deservedly end up therein...if there is criminality involved, I'm not one to throw my principles aside...

But we cannot decry some bad behaviour and be willing to be okay with other similar or bad behaviour when alleged to have been committed by some-one on "our" side...and the media that push the narratives are overwhelmingly leftist supporting...even CNN recently admitted that their partisanship for Democrats has cost them viewership...how about the New York Times and Washington Post that got Pulitzer's for their reporting of DJT's supposed collusion with Russia to win in 2016 when it was all a lie but nothing done to correct that lie...follow John Durham's (special counsel) filings in this matter and it is getting closer to Hillary's campaign being the origins of paying for (manufactured) dirt on DJT and his campaign...and the resultant spying on him, his campaign and people linked thereto...

I do not wish to have these divisive conversations with my fellow Clanners...but please converse from a position of knowledge rather than talking points in the main stream media...I do not have DSTv so cannot watch CNN, Sky, France24, etc ,etc to know what the narrative of the day is so read widely...Realclearpolitics tries to be impartial and has links to articles that are both left and right leaning / favouring and try to have an article from each on each topic...I try to read both articles and come to my own conclusions...I hope you do so too...

Stay safe and healthy...

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TNaicker
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago

#836740

@bayern...apologies...CNN link was posted by @cnc...30+ times DJT was supposedly soft on Russia...nothing softer than the blankets BHO gave to Ukraine

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Lionel
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago - 3 years 3 months ago

#836742

bayern wrote:

TN, did Ukraine have an uprising against Russia to become a sovereign nation, or were they allowed to leave, by the USSR, to pursue the right to self-determination. The financial aid is by NATO, not just the USA, the USA probavbly pays more than most in the alliance.

Really not interested in discussing Trump when innocent people are dying and he praises the genius of the aggressor.

By the way, what CNN thing did i post?

Trump is you and Lionel's hero, not mine. The man's a thief.

...unlike....?

Last edit: 3 years 3 months ago by Lionel.

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bayern
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago

#836744

Lionel wrote:

bayern wrote:

TN, did Ukraine have an uprising against Russia to become a sovereign nation, or were they allowed to leave, by the USSR, to pursue the right to self-determination. The financial aid is by NATO, not just the USA, the USA probavbly pays more than most in the alliance.

Really not interested in discussing Trump when innocent people are dying and he praises the genius of the aggressor.

By the way, what CNN thing did i post?

Trump is you and Lionel's hero, not mine. The man's a thief.

...unlike....?

DJT will get his comeuppance, that's a given.

Guessing has never been widely acclaimed as a good gambling strategy.

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bayern
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago

#836746

TNaicker wrote:

bayern wrote:

TN, did Ukraine have an uprising against Russia to become a sovereign nation, or were they allowed to leave, by the USSR, to pursue the right to self-determination. The financial aid is by NATO, not just the USA, the USA probavbly pays more than most in the alliance.

Really not interested in discussing Trump when innocent people are dying and he praises the genius of the aggressor.

By the way, what CNN thing did i post?

Trump is you and Lionel's hero, not mine. The man's a thief.

@bayern...DJT is no "hero" of mine...I supported him in 2020 as, as the incumbent, he was the only person in a position to stand against the insane leftist (and far left) policies that have come with "Joe"...we, here in South Africa have seen what leftist policies (yes, the ANC is on the left of the political spectrum) have done to this country...

DJT may be a "thief" and a whole host of other epithets one could throw his way and if anything is true, he should already be in jail or will deservedly end up therein...if there is criminality involved, I'm not one to throw my principles aside...

But we cannot decry some bad behaviour and be willing to be okay with other similar or bad behaviour when alleged to have been committed by some-one on "our" side...and the media that push the narratives are overwhelmingly leftist supporting...even CNN recently admitted that their partisanship for Democrats has cost them viewership...how about the New York Times and Washington Post that got Pulitzer's for their reporting of DJT's supposed collusion with Russia to win in 2016 when it was all a lie but nothing done to correct that lie...follow John Durham's (special counsel) filings in this matter and it is getting closer to Hillary's campaign being the origins of paying for (manufactured) dirt on DJT and his campaign...and the resultant spying on him, his campaign and people linked thereto...

I do not wish to have these divisive conversations with my fellow Clanners...but please converse from a position of knowledge rather than talking points in the main stream media...I do not have DSTv so cannot watch CNN, Sky, France24, etc ,etc to know what the narrative of the day is so read widely...Realclearpolitics tries to be impartial and has links to articles that are both left and right leaning / favouring and try to have an article from each on each topic...I try to read both articles and come to my own conclusions...I hope you do so too...

Stay safe and healthy...

Can tell you the Durham report actually exonerates Hillary Clinton - that is a fact. The "spying" on the White House was before DJT came to power. Durham even corrected Fox News after they alleged this was bigger than the Watergate scandal, and then went absolutely silent after he corrected them. See if you can find.

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TNaicker
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago

#836747

Durham hasn't come out with a report as yet save for indictments and filings related to an attorney Michael Sussman...

I read the New York Times article...full of opinion and their interpretation of events and reaction by Fox...this is the same New York Times whose "journalists" won Pulitzer/s for the Russia collusion lie...they have a vested interest in downplaying matters / actions of those they shilled for...

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