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RUSSIA/UKRAINE

  • Dave Scott
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago
#836322
Just switched on news 137 dead

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  • mikesack
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago
#836323
www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56720589

Why is Russia invading Ukraine and what does Putin want?

By Paul Kirby
BBC News

Published10 hours ago
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Ukraine crisis

Media caption,
WATCH: Footage from Ukraine shows explosions, a missile strike and a helicopter under fire
By air, land, and sea, Russia has launched a devastating attack on Ukraine, a European democracy of 44 million people. For months President Vladimir Putin had denied he would invade his neighbour, but then he tore up a peace deal, sending forces across borders in Ukraine's north, east and south.

As the number of dead climbs, he is now accused of shattering peace in Europe and what happens next could jeopardise the continent's entire security structure.

Where have Russian troops attacked and why?
Airports and military headquarters were hit first, near cities across Ukraine, including the main Boryspil international airport in Kyiv.

Then tanks and troops rolled into Ukraine in the north-east, near Kharkiv, a city of 1.4 million people; in the east near Luhansk, from neighbouring Belarus in the north and Crimea in the south. Paratroops seized a key airbase just outside Kyiv and Russian troops landed in Ukraine's big port cities of Odesa and Mariupol too.

Moments before the invasion began, President Putin went on TV declaring that Russia could not feel "safe, develop and exist" because of what he called a constant threat from modern Ukraine.

Map of explosions
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Many of his arguments were false or irrational. He claimed his goal was to protect people subjected to bullying and genocide and aim for the "demilitarisation and de-Nazification" of Ukraine. There has been no genocide in Ukraine - it is a vibrant democracy led by a president who is Jewish. "How could I be a Nazi?" said Volodymr Zelensky, who likened Russia's onslaught to Nazi Germany's invasion in World War Two.

President Putin has frequently accused Ukraine of being taken over by extremists, ever since its pro-Russian president, Viktor Yanukovych, was ousted in 2014 after months of protests against his rule. Russia then retaliated by seizing the southern region of Crimea and triggering a rebellion in the east, backing separatists who have fought Ukrainian forces in a war that has claimed 14,000 lives.

Late in 2021 he began deploying big numbers of Russian troops close to Ukraine's borders. Then this week he scrapped a 2015 peace deal for the east and recognised areas under rebel control as independent.

Russia has long resisted Ukraine's move towards the European Union and the West's defensive military alliance Nato. Announcing Russia's invasion, he accused Nato of threatening "our historic future as a nation".

Map showing the Donetsk and Luhansk regions in eastern Ukraine and the Russian-backed separatist-held areas within those regions.
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How far will Russia go?
Russia has refused to say if it seeks to overthrow Ukraine's democratically elected government, although it believes that ideally Ukraine should be "freed, cleansed of the Nazis". Mr Putin spoke of bringing to court "those who committed numerous bloody crimes against civilians".

It was a thinly veiled hint and by invading from Belarus and seizing Antonov airport close to the outskirts of Kyiv, there is little doubt that the capital is well within his sights.

In the days before the invasion, when up to 200,000 troops were within reach of Ukraine's borders, he had focused his attention on the east.

By recognising the Russian proxy separatist areasof Luhansk and Donetsk as independent, he had already decided they were no longer part of Ukraine. Then he revealed that he supported their claims to far more Ukrainian territory. The self-styled people's republics cover little more than a third of the whole of Ukraine's Luhansk and Donetsk regions but the rebels covet the rest, too.

line
Russia attacks Ukraine: More coverage
LIVE: Latest updates from on the ground
FROM KYIV: BBC Ukraine editor: There is no safe place any more
FROM MOSCOW: Shock and support in Russian capital
IN MAPS: How Russia carried out the invasion
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How dangerous is this invasion for Europe?
These are terrifying times for the people of Ukraine and horrifying for the rest of the continent, witnessing a major power invading a European neighbour for the first time since World War Two.

Dozens have died already in what Germany has dubbed "Putin's war", both civilians and soldiers. And for Europe's leaders this invasion has brought some of the darkest hours since the 1940s. It was, said France's Emmanuel Macron, a turning point in Europe's history. Recalling the Cold War days of the Soviet Union, Volodymyr Zelensky spoke of Ukraine's bid to avoid a new iron curtain closing Russia off from the civilised world.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky visiting positions on the frontline with pro-Russian militants in the Donetsk region, Ukraine, 06 December 2021
IMAGE SOURCE,EPA
Image caption,
Press handout showing Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on the front line
For the families of both armed forces there will be anxious days ahead. Ukrainians have already suffered a gruelling eight-year war with Russian proxies. The military has called up all reservists aged 18 to 60 years old. Top US military official Mark Milley said the scale of Russian forces would mean a "horrific" scenario with conflict in dense urban areas.

The invasion has knock-on effects for many other countries bordering both Russia and Ukraine. Latvia, Poland and Moldova say they are preparing for a big influx of refugees. A state of emergency has been declared in Lithuania and Moldova, where thousands of women and children have already entered.

This is not a war that Russia's population was prepared for either, as the invasion was rubber-stamped by a largely unrepresentative upper house of parliament.

What can the West do?
Nato has put warplanes on alert but the Western alliance has made clear there are no plans to send combat troops to Ukraine itself. Instead they have offered advisers, weapons and field hospitals. Meanwhile, 5,000 Nato troops have been deployed in the Baltic states and Poland. Another 4,000 could be sent to Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary and Slovakia.

Instead, the West is targeting Russia's economy, industry and individuals.

The EU has promised to restrict Russian access to capital markets and cut off its industry from latest technology. It has already imposed sanctions on 351 MPs who backed Russia's recognition of the rebel-held regions
Germany has halted approval on Russia's Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, a major investment by both Russia and European companies
The US says it will cut off Russia's government from Western financial institutions and target high-ranking "elites"
The UK says all major Russian banks would have their assets frozen, with 100 individuals and entities targeted; and Russia's national airline Aeroflot will also be banned from landing in the UK.
Ukraine has urged its allies to stop buying Russian oil and gas. The three Baltic states have called on the whole international community to disconnect Russia's banking system from the international Swift payment system. That could badly impact the US and European economies.

The Russian city of St Petersburg will no longer be able to host this year's Champions League final for security reasons. Europe's football governing body Uefa is also planning further measures.

Nato and US extra troops in Eastern Europe
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What does Putin want?
President Putin partly blamed his decision to attack on Nato's eastward expansion. He earlier complained Russia had "nowhere further to retreat to - do they think we'll just sit idly by?"

Ukraine is seeking a clear timeline to join Nato and Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov explained: "For us it's absolutely mandatory to ensure Ukraine never, ever becomes a member of Nato."

Last year President Putin wrote a long piece describing Russians and Ukrainians as "one nation", and he has described the collapse of the Soviet Union in December 1991 as the "disintegration of historical Russia". He has claimed modern Ukraine was entirely created by communist Russia and is now a puppet state, controlled by the West.

President Putin has also argued that if Ukraine joined Nato, the alliance might try to recapture Crimea.

Vladimir PutinEPA
Let's imagine Ukraine is a Nato member and starts these military operations. Are we supposed to go to war with the Nato bloc? Has anyone given that any thought? Apparently not
Vladimir Putin
Russian President
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But Russia is not just focused on Ukraine. It demands that Nato return to its pre-1997 borders.

Mr Putin wants Nato to remove its forces and military infrastructure from member states that joined the alliance from 1997 and not to deploy "strike weapons near Russia's borders". That means Central Europe, Eastern Europe and the Baltics.

In President Putin's eyes, the West promised back in 1990 that Nato would expand "not an inch to the east" but did so anyway.

That was before the collapse of the Soviet Union, however, so the promise made to then Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev only referred to East Germany in the context of a reunified Germany.

Mr Gorbachev said later "the topic of Nato expansion was never discussed" at the time.

What has Nato said?
Nato is a defensive alliance with an open-door policy to new members, and its 30 member states are adamant that will not change.

There is no prospect of Ukraine joining for a long time, as Germany's chancellor has made clear.

But the idea that any current Nato country would give up its membership is a non-starter.

Graphic showing Nato's expansion since 1997
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Is there a diplomatic way out?
Not for now, but any eventual deal would have to cover both the war in the east and arms control.

Russian President Vladimir Putin holds talks with U.S. President Joe Biden via a video link in Sochi, Russia December 7, 2021
IMAGE SOURCE,REUTERS
Image caption,
The Russian and US presidents have spoken several times via video link and over the phone
The US had offered to start talks on limiting short- and medium-range missiles as well as on a new treaty on intercontinental missiles. Russia wanted all US nuclear arms barred from beyond their national territories.

Russia had been positive towards a proposed "transparency mechanism" of mutual checks on missile bases - two in Russia, and two in Romania and Poland.

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  • mikesack
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago
#836325
There will be no Champions League Final in St Petersburg this year.
Yet President Vladimir Putin has kicked the ball into Nato's court.

There is no pussy-footing this time. The time has come and the world is on the brink.
Post 1997 expansion by Nato invitation [ LIKE DURBAN JULY INVITATION ] has seen 14 E European countries absorbed into Nato...Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech,Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Slovenia, Croatia, Montenegro, Albania, North Macedonia, Bulgaria.

On the map all these countries form a border from top to bottom and are separated from Russia by Belarus in the North and Ukraine in the Mid-South. About 5000 km away from Moscow.

If Ukraine had to be invited into Nato then Russia would be almost totally exposed to whatever missiles and military hardware Nato, Usa, Uk and the Allies installed in those 15 post 1997 joined countries ( Ukraine included but not yet a member ).

Puppet Goverments included.

They have aroused the Bear and it will fight for it's survival.

Let us pray that USA and it's Nato Allies see the light and avoid a Nuclear Showdown that will blow all of Mankind out of this World.

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  • CnC 306
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago
#836366
F1 have removed Russia from their calendar, Champions League final moved from St Petersburg to Paris, Man United have stopped using Russian airline Aerofloat as a sponsor. Now they must freeze all Russian assets in London but they can’t as the British Gov have been taking money off Russian billionaires for years.

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  • Mac
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Re: Re:RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago
#836372
Gazprom?


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  • Mac
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Re: Re:RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago
#836373
That sanctions stuff above is all just w*nk w*nk. The West is f*cking useless. Why didn’t they start earlier? Western Europe just practises voyeurism, masters at it. In twelve months time Ukraine will be a state of Russia again, and you know what too, the Western European clowns will justify it too. Mark my words.


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  • Mac
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Re: Re:RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago
#836374
I wish Biden would put a shit load of troops on the Alaskan border just like Putin was doing. It’s like playing the board game Risk. But will Putin then fire nuclear? New York?


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  • CnC 306
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago
#836382
If he does then the US, UK, Japan, Pakistan and Israel will all fire back and flatten ever City in Russia. Putin knows that.

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  • bayern
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Re: Re:RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago
#836384
That sanctions stuff above is all just w*nk w*nk. The West is f*cking useless. Why didn’t they start earlier? Western Europe just practises voyeurism, masters at it. In twelve months time Ukraine will be a state of Russia again, and you know what too, the Western European clowns will justify it too. Mark my words.


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Two reasons, you can't punish someone for a thought crime, you have to wait until they commit the crime, and the sanctions effect is not immediate or (say) will not be felt in the next 3 or 6 months.
Guessing has never been widely acclaimed as a good gambling strategy.

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  • naresh
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Re: Re:RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago
#836386
I wish Biden would put a shit load of troops on the Alaskan border just like Putin was doing. It’s like playing the board game Risk. But will Putin then fire nuclear? New York?


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New York is on the Eastern Seaboard of the United States. Alaska, once part of Russia is on the Western Seaboard of North America and shares a boarder with Canada but not USA itself. The Bearing Strait separates Alaska and Far East Russia. Thats the closest. I doubt any nuclear weapon can reach New York launched from Russia itself.

Kaliningrad, an exclave of Russia, is in the Baltic. Dont know what weapons it may have stored there but it can reach most of Europe and all Scandinavian countries but Scandinavian countries normally remain neutral.

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  • CnC 306
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Re: Re:RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago - 3 years 3 months ago
#836387
I wish Biden would put a shit load of troops on the Alaskan border just like Putin was doing. It’s like playing the board game Risk. But will Putin then fire nuclear? New York?


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New York is on the Eastern Seaboard of the United States. Alaska, once part of Russia is on the Western Seaboard of North America and shares a boarder with Canada but not USA itself. The Bearing Strait separates Alaska and Far East Russia. Thats the closest. I doubt any nuclear weapon can reach New York launched from Russia itself.

Kaliningrad, an exclave of Russia, is in the Baltic. Dont know what weapons it may have stored there but it can reach most of Europe and all Scandinavian countries but Scandinavian countries normally remain neutral.

They have missiles that have a 12 thousand kilometre range naresh. Nothing stopping them sending out a nuke sub
Last edit: 3 years 3 months ago by CnC 306.

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  • bayern
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Re: RUSSIA/UKRAINE

3 years 3 months ago
#836393
The use of nuclear weapons is not even on the table. It's mutually assured destruction and there will be no winners. If Russia lunches (nukes), NATO launches, it's that simple. This is why it didn't happen during the Cold War.

There will have to be a lot more escalation for the use of nukes to be considered, things would have to spiral out of control and it becomes likely then, not that it gets used. The use of nukes is the least bad option.

Maybe New Yorkers should start hunting for Red October to allay their fears, nah, only joshing.
Guessing has never been widely acclaimed as a good gambling strategy.

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