Why have pools and payouts not grown enough?

Tigershark wrote: Agreed Mr H, there certainly can be improvements to the facilities and different simple racing bets offered with fixed odds that are massive for those punters. An all to win bet for R10 at any race meeting on 6 horses would pay big if 4 of the 6 were 5/1-20/1.....

here we have a problem - the bookies are giving these dream bets but they DO NOT RELY ON A POOL.... so the guy bets to win 100k regardless of a pool ... now I take a p6 in say flamingo - hard enough to find 6 winners anywhere but in Flamingo! Now I am the only ticket and I pick up 240k(the pool - I'm using the example of Bokked who won that pool) - So the Tote cannot ever compete as it is reliant on a pool to set a dividend - So the answer is fixed odds and with fixed odds Racing does not get enough back - So how can you attract sporting punters to the tote when they don't want the "guess" element in their risk - They want to know if it's their day they win 100k not 20k because there were 10 other guys who played the same teams... I love Racing but I cannot see a way to convince this "new money" to join me in Racing

Tigershark wrote: Mr Arrogant, the Tote money actually pays for the racing to be staged although it appears you do not understand that.

Rather ask yourself why the Bookmakers offer these specials? Notwithstanding the fact that they do not pay for the product they host betting on they rely mainly on punters like you to take up the special offer and treat you like a king.

does the tote pay for the soccer product they use for soccer 4,6,10 , soccer score and time bomb ?

how much does the tote contribute towards those leagues ?

look forward to your reply

Tiger if you feel so strongly on this topic and to me it looks like you been a bit brainwashed since you were put on the owners group then why not give a few seasoned long term punters a chance to tell you how and where to go about things regarding this very topic ..you wont find the answers among yourselves and you wdefinitly wont get them at gold circle ..i have a few things to show you that will make your stance on certain issues change very quickly

MR ARROGANT wrote:

Tigershark wrote: Mr Arrogant, the Tote money actually pays for the racing to be staged although it appears you do not understand that.

Rather ask yourself why the Bookmakers offer these specials? Notwithstanding the fact that they do not pay for the product they host betting on they rely mainly on punters like you to take up the special offer and treat you like a king.

does the tote pay for the soccer product they use for soccer 4,6,10 , soccer score and time bomb ?

how much does the tote contribute towards those leagues ?

look forward to your reply

I think the PSL or SAFA gets some type of contribution.

Pirates, i wouldn't make assumptions about people, you may not like mine of you.

You know who I am so why have you not contacted me yet to give insight??? Why are you waiting on the sidelines???

I will PM you my mail address and contact number so that you can give me some of your insights which you know I will put to good use. I have long advocated that you get involved in the change that is needed .........

The short answer is that pools will never grow at any significant rate if it is only the same people playing all the time.

Customer growth equals pool growth over time and we all know how well this is going.

At the same time punting and stakes are inseparable and as long as the pot dwindles so will the returns to those who guarantees the show.

Racing has so many products for the punter yet is starved of significant acquisition potential because it fails to invest in products designed for greater entertainment value.

Old school punters like us are a dying breed and unless this is recognised in the product offering the slide will never be reversed.

The industry must recognise the folly of relying on operators to improve the situation as the corporate model is not the silver bullet that everyone was hoping for.

Corporate decisions are seldom based on what is good for racing and will always only come back to what is good for the company.

Time for our industry to start independent marketing initiatives aimed at benefiting the long list of stakeholders that are suffering under the current model.

I don't see the fascination with large carryover pools. If there was R1 million carryover into a pick 6 pool I would be quite happy to be the only person playing it, as if I catch the Pick 6 I would win R1 million even if all the favorites arrive. The more that is placed into a carryover pool the more the carryover amount is diluted.

MR ARROGANT wrote:

Tigershark wrote: Mr Arrogant, the Tote money actually pays for the racing to be staged although it appears you do not understand that.

Rather ask yourself why the Bookmakers offer these specials? Notwithstanding the fact that they do not pay for the product they host betting on they rely mainly on punters like you to take up the special offer and treat you like a king.

does the tote pay for the soccer product they use for soccer 4,6,10 , soccer score and time bomb ?

how much does the tote contribute towards those leagues ?

look forward to your reply

tiger shark silent now

Tigershark wrote: Pirates, i wouldn't make assumptions about people, you may not like mine of you.

You know who I am so why have you not contacted me yet to give insight??? Why are you waiting on the sidelines???

I will PM you my mail address and contact number so that you can give me some of your insights which you know I will put to good use. I have long advocated that you get involved in the change that is needed .........

have sent you all my contact details via sms email and sent you an email with correspondance to read

shrek wrote: I don't see the fascination with large carryover pools. If there was R1 million carryover into a pick 6 pool I would be quite happy to be the only person playing it, as if I catch the Pick 6 I would win R1 million even if all the favorites arrive. The more that is placed into a carryover pool the more the carryover amount is diluted.

That's the problem- If i take a million to 1 bet against the bookmaker I'm the only ticket - if the P6 pool is 20 Million and all the favs arrive the div could be R20 000 so logic tells me that Dream Money would rather take fixed odds. There are no pool bets that can save racing... We have moved on as a society that would gamble to add a little extra to our income (the stories are on Abc of guys winning money to buy furniture, weddings cars etc) to one where we want a win big enough to change our very existence - If you tell a soccer guy that he can take 3 1/6 shots on a treble he can effectively dbl his stake every 2 days he will tell that can't buy him a house.. my thoughts are enjoy Racing while you can and the last guy left turn the lights off

Mr H

You are correct that there are no pool bets that can save racing but the irony is that there can be one's that can make a huge difference to not only the public's perception but also their expectancy around winning life changing amounts for an affordable outlay.

The problem is that these types of bets are not fancied by the operators as they are more concerned about existing players switching and spending less than the longer term impact of growing the customer base substantially to something with an economic future.

It's these realities that show up the shortcomings of the corporate model with racing and the punter the ultimate losers.

Racing can be great again but it would require a visionary and creative approach with short, medium and longer term strategies, not just producing the maximum in the moment for next years results.

LSU wrote: Mr H

You are correct that there are no pool bets that can save racing but the irony is that there can be one's that can make a huge difference to not only the public's perception but also their expectancy around winning life changing amounts for an affordable outlay.

The problem is that these types of bets are not fancied by the operators as they are more concerned about existing players switching and spending less than the longer term impact of growing the customer base substantially to something with an economic future.

It's these realities that show up the shortcomings of the corporate model with racing and the punter the ultimate losers.

Racing can be great again but it would require a visionary and creative approach with short, medium and longer term strategies, not just producing the maximum in the moment for next years results.

Leon i just don't see it - Racing has been a consistent in my life for 40 years so it is a given that I love this game but realism is also core to my character... Racing is not attractive... to the general public ... Sports and numbers are - You cannot try to sell a product to people that don't enjoy it... I love Rugby and enjoy watching it but even-though I enjoyed playing soccer I really get bored watching games - Now the majority of the public in SA don't like Racing - fact - if not this thread would not exist - The only way I see Racing surviving is if the product goes completely digital and races are streamed for free with much less delay between races to give Racing a more modern feel.and bigger net.. Purists will hate it but the age of instant gratification is now and a sport that is about speed needs to use that to its advantage - I still believe that Racing is the VHS of gambling but I'm sentimental and will play until I or Racing dies but that does not mean i would buy shares in a new Recourse cause i don't hate my money that much