Why have pools and payouts not grown enough?

Mr Arrogant, the quick bet and big payout - why is the engaged punter not attaining this? on a regular basis? what is missing in his application to hit the mark?
is it:
1. lack of time to form study
2. lack of information
3. structure of the bets/payouts
4. all of the above
5. other

taking into account, for the engaged punter, racing is a game of skill, not a gamble. There are probabilities that can be minimised or hedged. For the dis-engaged punter, or, for want of a better description, the numbers player, it is the same as for lotto, but with better odds (there are only 20 horses in a race) - in which case the issue of hitting the mark doesn't count.

The problem with racing's dream bet (currently the P6) is that it is almost impossible to win with a small outlay which makes it a very bad bet for mr/ms average or novice.

Even big pools on big race days seldom have a single winner to make it a really life changing dividend.

So many times we catch a few outsiders in some of the legs (even some really big one's) only to be dumped in another and have nothing to show for finding those elusive long shots.

This is the frustration if compared to a lotto ticket or roll on the dream machine at the casino which is much cheaper and with a bigger dream attached and no thinking that needs to be done or time spent on studying form.

I have a game that I have mentioned before that will address all of these shortcomings (called Scoreline) and that will pay a guaranteed dream dividend at the end of the season to multiple big winners.

It has a very fast growing jackpot portion, guaranteed daily pay outs to ensure that punters efforts are never in vain and a seasonal component that will produce mouth watering guaranteed winners.

With no elimination every punter will have the best run for their money that they will ever have with an exotic pool bet.

No fractional betting so only full dividends will be on offer to all winners.

Also no more guessing where the carry overs are going to as all of it will go to the very next Scoreline event on offer which ensures complete transparency of the pool and more attractive events even during the week.

This product has been built and could be rolled out with minimal integration requirements into an online or mobile environment.

This product would allow racing to directly compete with the lotto and casino jackpots and will reward those willing to improve their skill.

Naresh and, in the face of competition, racing also works? how come. Tell me.

Don wrote: Mr Arrogant, the quick bet and big payout - why is the engaged punter not attaining this? on a regular basis? what is missing in his application to hit the mark?
is it:
1. lack of time to form study
2. lack of information
3. structure of the bets/payouts
4. all of the above
5. other

taking into account, for the engaged punter, racing is a game of skill, not a gamble. There are probabilities that can be minimised or hedged. For the dis-engaged punter, or, for want of a better description, the numbers player, it is the same as for lotto, but with better odds (there are only 20 horses in a race) - in which case the issue of hitting the mark doesn't count.

racing is a game of skill but

90% of the youngsters think the racing Is fixed

not about if its true or not but That's the impression youngsters got

doesn't help when Sheldon screams the coup as been landed especially when that first timer won few weeks ago

Mr Arrogant, is all I can say, and that I know. That needs to be changed. The integrity. And everyone has to be willing to do their bit to remedy that. What is the point of trying to attract people to racing if they are going to be slammed in the face with that exact thing (and more) to which you are referring. Let me not start...

Mr Arrogant so what you trying to say is that every coup that is made is because racing is fixed....I believe that impression is an easy way out for the man in the street / punters who don't put in the study time. Every day on this site various winners are tipped by clanners who have no ability to fix races .

Len its simple don't scream Coup

instead of the commentator saying the money horse won , they should say the form horse won

hearing the form will encourage people to go look at form

I got no problem with the commentator saying it like it is.If that is the truth why shouldn't he say it.By not saying it was a coup we would be keeping even more secrets from the public.

Let me relate so of my own experiences -
I recall racing late 80's 90's - People went Racing to gamble(very few for the Sport) - I remember after a race runs tickets get thrown on the floor en masse if an unpopular horse wins - They were not on course to socialise though it happened naturally... We now have this "fairy-tale marketing" where we are supposed to beleive we should go racing for the love of the horse and the beauty of the sport - Fact horses have no choice but to race so let's be real and stop pretending that this is like the "Beautiful Game".
I recall years ago I was part of the first incarnation of It's A rush...
I took a meeting with a senior person that was controlling this initiative who had zero knowledge about Racing -
The concept was explaied to me and though I do not think I am more than average intelligence I could not understand it at all - I then SWORE in that meeting and again in later meetings - The disgusting word I used was BET!! The whole idea was to ignore the betting aspect for as long as possible until the new racers had become used to the ' i suppose "beauty" of Racing .. To say I was confused in an understatment - For a moment I thought perhaps the Big T was going to be turned into a petting zoo and theme park with betting being phased out so that money could be made off the social angle of Racing- I had to look out the window and see the grimy skyline of JHB and the huge landfill ajacent to the course to realise that this was "fairy marketing".
Racing demands a few things - Owners that enjoy Racing more than they do punting so that they can stay in the game and a constanly growing and fluid base of players made up of "addicts" casual players and day-trippers.
Now the way to keep 'addicts' happy is to listen to them and keep them happy as they are selfish and will move on if they are not heard.
Getting casual players is harder but for this you need to find risk-takers... that's easy..
The focus should be on 18-25 year old players - They are natural risk-takers - Think about the "all the crazy shit I did tonight" (thanks Mr Guetta) - Most of those memories come from your youth yet Phum and Gc don't focus on them - Years ago we tried a Youth Day - it should have worked but no follow up - Turffontein is maybe 15km from Wits and UJ yet where are the Rag Days? Do we wait until these guys turn 30 and have wives and morgages before we try to get them Racing? Yes we do because then they are clean and can be groomed to buy horses but they don't because they are wiser then and have financial commitments.
Then we have the elderly - people between say 60 and 70 who perhaps in their youth did not risk but now they have mellowed and are more prone to experiment, would enjoy a midweek raceday if they could get a relatively affordable meal and have a fun day out instead of watching tv or driving to the nearest casino (which they often do)

Then we have the neglected addict - Well he keeps the game going - everyday the operators steal the round from punters - I have no idea what they do with that money - If they understood the addict then what they could do is ask them to sms their TELEBET acc to a number and everyday if say the amount rounded was 20k they could distribute to winning account numbers with amounts ranging from R200 to R2000 in betting vouchers - Addicts talk and the word willl spread that you need a telebet acc - That helps because now your database grows and you can sms or email Racing events to them to keep them in the game...
The first words I normally hear when I enter the track or tote are "What you like?" I would make this a feature - I would offer a saya daily R500 bet on a horse to be paid for by the operator when you SMS your horse to a number - This keeps the puntining vibe high and reminds the guy why he bets.
On Teletrack I would make punters the focus - I would send out Bon to interview random punters - Vignettes where a punter recounts a big win he had and how he did it..I would flight these daily to reinforce that you can and will win if you persist...Leading up to big races I would do the same - One question - "who do you like for the July" and keep flighting different people that are not owners or trainers but punters
But that's just me - If I own a bakery I think it would be silly to advertise cars in my shop but perhaps I too like Racing am old and this new formula of deflective Marketing which clearly does not work will at some time bear fruits?

Mr H, your version of events and realities resonates with most people as we all feel that too little is being done to inculcate the race goer with regards to betting.

We should not knock efforts by people like Don though as they are doing a great job without a helluva lot of assistance, either directly or indirectly.

Regardless of which camp we are in with regards to marketing the offer lacks clout and this must be addressed.

Entertainment is not just about the important day at the races to sell the atmosphere it must also recognise that the gambling game must have the ability to entertain. Losing interest happens quickly when money pours out of your wallet without replenishment in a one directional fashion.

This is never truer than when people are still unskilled and incapable of getting the occasional joy of a win unless through pure luck or a whisper from a skilled person around them.

This is the phase that needs the biggest attention and where our current product offering fails the longer term needs of the industry.

Where I am in full agreement is that without the gambling aspect or otherwise ownership of a horse interest will be very hard to stimulate and maintain.

Leon did you ever think why it was mooted to charge R50 to go Racing in Gauteng and the WC? Are we to believe that this is because there are so many people going Racing that space is limited? Or could it be that the R50 charge will keep the daily punter away so that the Social Events can have some form of protected exclusivity? I don't know the answer but I can only surmise looking at all the other trends that have emerged over the last few years - Where have you ever heard of an empty shop charging people to enter its doors - Racing should be PAYING people (in some form, loyalty specials etc) to come Racing not charging them if turnover is to grow

Agreed Mr H, charging under the circumstances does seem extreme and counter productive.