Co-mingling?

There's something I'm not quite following with the co-mingling system.

Let's say the pool on a race is R100k and R30k of that came from Australia.
If the Australian's winnings on the race come to R50k, is that money being sent out of South Africa to Australia?

Co-mingling is being marketed as a bonus to SA racing. The local tote benefits by getting its cut of the gross pool, but what happens if the foreigners are winning a bigger portion of the pool than the local guys? Would we have a net ouflow of funds from South Africa? Also, is there any exchange control issue with this?

Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

Sabre,

I believe the only thing that will be affected are the payouts.

It does not matter what the amounts are they win, it will simply be dissolved into the pools. This is what I originally told everyone about co mingling.
If the total pool is R100k (split 70% local and 30% international), then the payouts get worked out as follows:

!00k less taxes and admin charges = R87k.....THis figure gets shared amongst the winning tickets and so a dividend gets declared. Simple.....No extra money leaves anybody to go anywhere. The pool simply gets devided.
NOW: If people are LUMPING on certain horses it stands to reason that those horses will pay less than others...My point is HOW is it possible that these foreign players almost ALWAYS lump on the correct horses????

That to me seems more than slightly suspicious.


Now my perception of co mingling has changed due to the ABSOLUTELY rediculous payouts the last while.

Two fellows pitch up in suits without a note,any stats or figures and say nothing more than "thats the way it is"
There was a clue in one of the statements "the SA punter gets his rand back,the aussie gets 0.50" So in a co-mingled pool there are diffirent rules for diffirent pools.Therein lies an interesting picture!

I thought he said the overseas punter get 50c back, so he losses money?

Sorry,right Greg was editing as you posted.......The point is tho,that co-mingled pools then become un-mingled in diffirent proportions at payout stage.That strikes me as strange and I would still like the truth about "takeouts"of which there was no mention....in fact they both said nothing actually.

Thanks Tommy. Still not getting my head wrapped around how it actually works.

Simple example: Match race.
Punter A is in Aus and bets 50k on Horse 1.
Punter B is in SAf and bets 50k on Horse 2.
SAf Tote takes its cut. Each horse is paying R1.70 a win.
Horse 1 wins so Punter A in Aus wins the whole 85k. He goes to his tote window to cash in his ticket and gets paid out.
The Aus tote is now short 35k (50k in, 85k out).
Won't that 35k have to be 'sent' to Aus?

Look, I did not watch the show, but if that is indeed what they said then they are more disillusioned than I thought?

How can anybody play to loose money? Thats not the way the pools operate? If you have a R10 winning ticket paying R1-10 a win you collect R10-10.
If you have a $10 winning ticket you collect $10-10...nothing changes. How can they only get back 0.50c???

I'll wait for the official press releases coming after this debacle.

Doesn't seem like they made anything clear, just muddied the waters even more??

If overseas punters are contributing 30% of our pools does that mean stakes will increase by the same proportion?

Nobody who had decided that tote betting is no longer viable will have changed their mind...thats the bottom line IMO.

That is really my very main concern.

Phumelela is now increasing their profits by approximately their take of the pool that is now 30% bigger thanks to overseas players:

Lets look at an example:

Gross Win pool without co-mingling: R50k
Net Win pool without co-mingling: R42K

TAXES = R6.5k (Approx)
P take out = R1.5k (Approx)

NOW:

Gross Win pool WITH co-mingling: R80k
Net Win pool WITH co-mingling: R67k

TAXES = R9.5k (approx)
P take out = 3.5k (approx)

Phumelela's take out increases with hardly any increase in material expenses (apart from whatever it costs them to install and run this comingled operation which should be dealt with in "capex" and not in operational expenses, apart from salaries for the techies)

Are they now going to spend more money on the local racing program, as this is where their money comes from or are they going to report to shareholders that their floated company is doing SOOOOOO well and they are happy to announce a R3-40 share dividend for the year!?!?!?!?!

I think the answer is quite obvious. Racing gets nothing and they get more and more.......

All of the above are "fudged" figures to try and explain my point.

We pay 20c in the rand for the privilege of betting on our tote. My question is whether co-minglers are paying the same "tax" and do they see the same payout? The comment about only getting 50c for a place is quite alarming, because it infers a different payout structure. What if overseas punters are only paying 10c in the rand? Are all bets being pooled on equal terms?

where were the facts, the figures, the compassion for the punter? Did i watch the right show? A prime opportunity to put to rest some of our doubts even if it was only to us lucky enuf to have dstv, and it was wasted in my eyes! The ardent tote player that spends his hard earned money helping our Tote make money, does he not have the right to hear what is going on. Im dumbstruck!!