MR of Variety Club and Jackson

Barry,

I have handicapped the Timeform way ever since I started in the Sixties.
Sporting Post ratings are comparable to Timeform's.

We use sectional (hand) timing for all races (not easy if you're not at the track), to tell us when to use caution.

I am well aware of what happens in the rest of the world, and how different so many countries are.

I battle with the official handicappers assessment on a regular basis, but in the end I benefit from their shortcomings.

There is no need to teach me how to suck eggs.

Barry Irwin Wrote:

> Having a horse like Ebony Flyer ranked below some
> of the horses which she has dusted in top races is
> comical and shows a total lack of understanding of
> quality.

Ebony Flyer beat Gibraltar Blue over a mile. GB is vulnerable over that distance and has earned her rating in races run over less than a mile.

2cents Wrote:

---

> Barry Irwin Wrote:
>
> > Having a horse like Ebony Flyer ranked below
> some
> > of the horses which she has dusted in top races
> is
> > comical and shows a total lack of understanding
> of
> > quality.
>
> Ebony Flyer beat Gibraltar Blue over a mile. GB is
> not a miler, she is vulnerable over that distance.

Igugu aint too good either

Hibs,I didn't believe that form would stand up then and I am even more sure it won't stand up now!

its easy to say ebony flyer should be higher than she is..but she is yet to prove it..the only top horse she dusted was a horse that quite clearly doesnt stay 1600m at that level and thats the whole basis of your argument..what about the fact that when she ran in a race that she could have proved she was above 107 she ran 5th?? in the queens plate..but im sure there will be an excuse for that..horses cant be rated on reputation or the owners beliefs..you cant beat horses rated lower than you at equal weights and expect to go up and up and up..

Karel, what I would like to see in ALL countries, is what Timeform does, which is to have a master rating that reflects the quality of the individual horse, as well as a Timefigure, which relates to each performance.

South Africa has just the one figure.

America has NO FIGURES WHATSOEVER except for those that are a composite average done by unofficial handicappers in three racing regions and are submitted to the International Federation.

I think the master rating is very useful to understand the quality of the animal in general terms.

And I think the Timefigure, race-by-race approach is useful for punters, so that they can assess how hard of an effort a horse might have had in each of its races.

The entire concept of Ragozin and ThoroGraph is predicated on the so-called bounce theory, which attempts to point out to punters when a horse should be ignored or bet. If a horse runs a very fast race, it is then vulnerable to "bounce" (regress) in its next race.

Timefigure ratings are something that addresses this.

But what each country could use is a master rating for overall quality for the bloodstock industry and a race-by-race rating to assist punters.

Also, I don't eat egg yolks, but I am going to start saving them and freezing them so that when you come to Kentucky during the summer, I can make you a first class omlet so you don't have to keep sucking those eggs so much!!!

Barry,

In the back of the Timeform Annuals you'll find a listing of the better horses worldwide, from ten or so major racing countries, including North America (South Africa does not make the grade).
The book separates performances on different surfaces, by age, from the best down to about ratings of 115.

The 2011 Annual comes out in March.

I like my omelette on the runny side, like my horses.

Mick dies and goes to hell and he sees lots and lots of clocks. Alarm clocks, grandfather clocks, cuckoo clocks, small clocks, big clocks, wooden clocks, so on and so on.

Mick to the devil "Why all these clocks?"

The devil "Well every soul here has his own dedicated clock. Everytime that some one wanked the hands make one turn".

Mick "Well where's my clock?"

The devil "Its in my office. I'm using it as a fan"

Rabattache once had a merit rating of 113 for just winning normal merit rated handicaps and a place in the Cape Classic. How is that possible ? Now that he is back to a 107 on par with Ebony Flyer, which one of them do you think is more talented !!! cos me thinks Ebony Flyer is still a much better horse over 1200m than Rabattache.

If I understand Barry's explanation,every horse in the States has 3 "privatised" ratings,and there is no "official" handicapping.
That begs the question...... how is the carded weight of American horses arrived at,and who decides?

Did you know that Colorado King SAF won the American Handicap in 1964 in a world record time for nine furlongs ~useless trivia

In the US in the majority of races, number of races won, when they were won and how much was won determines the weights. There has rarely been a meaningful handicap run in the last decade, because racing officials have been loathe to weight down a horse with a large burden for fear that the horse will be moved to a different locale.