owner get screwed by trainer

So not paying a debt is not fraud? Millions of bad debt from "racehorse owners" have been written off collectively by nearly every trainer in SA.

Horses eat, feed merchants etc get paid by trainers, and then some owners do not pay their bills. I dunno, sounds pretty much like fraud to me? Especially when this guy keeps "promising" (his word not mine) to pay...

And guess what? The NHRA refuse to do anything about owners that do not pay (ask New Turf Carriers), so can't see why they will do anything about this. So don't hold your breath.

Anyone know any good debt collectors?

mr hawaii Wrote:

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> rubyclipper Wrote:
>

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>

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> > Ah yes Justin V, you are SO right. I have been
> > waiting since 1pm for an ex-owner to come and
> > deliver some cash and a post dated cheque....
> > Guess what, I am STILL waiting. He won't be
> > coming... Just like the previous 10-15 times
> he's
> > "promised" that he will bring the money. So
> this
> > works both ways...
>
>
> big difference between not paying a debt and
> trying to defraud someone though I understand that
> trainers should be paid like any other people that
> provide a service.


oh yes not by any means comparing the two..
im sure this type of thing is a minority where as owners not paying training fees is a regular happening in the game..
easier said then done rob..an owner can start off being a good payer and then stop paying and then what?? who supports the trainer in getting the money back? it is near on impossible..and the problem is leveraged by the fact that owners are billed and have 90 days to pay or whatever it is from stable to stable meanwhile feed,bedding etc i cash on delivery! so a trainer can carry an owner for a long time before anything i settled if settled at all!! people should not be given colours so easily and payments should be handled differently..in many places overseas owners pay the jockey club and the trainers are paid direct by the jockey club regardless of payment being late etc..this would change many trainers lives fort the better here but unfortunately that will not happen soon and trainers will continue to get the short end of the stick in racing here!

rubyclipper Wrote:

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> So not paying a debt is not fraud? Millions of bad
> debt from "racehorse owners" have been written off
> collectively by nearly every trainer in SA.
>
> Horses eat, feed merchants etc get paid by
> trainers, and then some owners do not pay their
> bills. I dunno, sounds pretty much like fraud to
> me? Especially when this guy keeps "promising"
> (his word not mine) to pay...
>
> And guess what? The NHRA refuse to do anything
> about owners that do not pay (ask New Turf
> Carriers), so can't see why they will do anything
> about this. So don't hold your breath.
>
> Anyone know any good debt collectors?

Ruby my take on Fraud - you open an account at a shop and provide the incorrect details so you cannot be billed or in this case you were offered X amount for the horse as agent but you tell your owner you were offered less and thereby defraud him . Not paying a bill is not fraudulent (unless you act fraudulently by hiding money to prevent payment) but is non-fulfillment of your contract.

The owner is nofal figure out who the trainer is

My take on fraud... You go to Edgars, open up an account (providing all sorts of proof that you will pay), buying some clothes on that account, wearing the clothes (ie it is now non-returnable, and therefore of no value to Edgars), and then NOT paying your monthly installments.

Fraud is taking something from somebody else, causing a loss to that person.

What has happened in this case is probably immoral, but each case is equally fraud.

brasss Wrote:

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> The owner is nofal figure out who the trainer is

Yeah,eric and irene nofal

Was the horse beacon flare?

Yes

Its funny when i think back a few years i went to a party in Newmarket and the Subject matter
is exactly what was happening in the cellar when i went looking for a bottle of wine...-

rubyclipper Wrote:

---

> My take on fraud... You go to Edgars, open up an
> account (providing all sorts of proof that you
> will pay), buying some clothes on that account,
> wearing the clothes (ie it is now non-returnable,
> and therefore of no value to Edgars), and then NOT
> paying your monthly installments.
>
> Fraud is taking something from somebody else,
> causing a loss to that person.
>
> What has happened in this case is probably
> immoral, but each case is equally fraud.

Fraud is a criminal offense while non-payment is not or the jails would be full of non-payers. (almost 9 million people in SA have impaired credit(2011) link

Explain then how you can be arrested for non-payment of traffic fines?

So a trainer conning an owner out of x amount in a sale can be arrested for fraud? But an owner who does not pay his bills can't? Go figure...

rubyclipper Wrote:

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> Explain then how you can be arrested for
> non-payment of traffic fines?
>
> So a trainer conning an owner out of x amount in a
> sale can be arrested for fraud? But an owner who
> does not pay his bills can't? Go figure...

...because non-payment of that fine is in effect non-compliance with a court order(you have been found guilty by camera etc) that the Courts issue with a pecuniary fine for an offense deemed to be punishable by CRIMINAL LAW(The Law to protect us all) not COMMON LAW (which would regulate dealings between individuals -contracts etc).

something like this must have happened overseas in the past,, HRA have to act to be seen as a controlling body or racing game becomes a free for all